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N haplogroup and Siberian admixture linked to the spread of Uralic languages
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Thread: N haplogroup and Siberian admixture linked to the spread of Uralic languages

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    Default N haplogroup and Siberian admixture linked to the spread of Uralic languages

    This study debunks the theories that Carlos from indo-european.eu believes in (about allegedly Finno-Ugric Corded Ware culture):

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(19)30424-5

    "In this study, we compare the genetic ancestry of individuals from two as yet genetically unstudied cultural traditions in Estonia in the context of available modern and ancient datasets: 15 from the Late Bronze Age stone-cist graves (1200–400 BC) (EstBA) and 6 from the Pre-Roman Iron Age tarand cemeteries (800/500 BC–50 AD) (EstIA). We also included 5 Pre-Roman to Roman Iron Age Ingrian (500 BC–450 AD) (IngIA) and 7 Middle Age Estonian (1200–1600 AD) (EstMA) individuals to build a dataset for studying the demographic history of the northern parts of the Eastern Baltic from the earliest layer of Mesolithic to modern times. Our findings are consistent with EstBA receiving gene flow from regions with strong Western hunter-gatherer (WHG) affinities and EstIA from populations related to modern Siberians. The latter inference is in accordance with Y chromosome (chrY) distributions in present day populations of the Eastern Baltic, as well as patterns of autosomal variation in the majority of the westernmost Uralic speakers [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]. This ancestry reached the coasts of the Baltic Sea no later than the mid-first millennium BC; i.e., in the same time window as the diversification of west Uralic (Finnic) languages [6]. Furthermore, phenotypic traits often associated with modern Northern Europeans, like light eyes, hair, and skin, as well as lactose tolerance, can be traced back to the Bronze Age in the Eastern Baltic."

    More:

    "We identified chrY hgs for 30 male individuals (Tables 1 and S2; STAR Methods). All 16 successfully haplogrouped EstBA males belonged to hg R1a, showing no change from the CWC period, when this was also the only chrY lineage detected in the Eastern Baltic [11, 13, 30, 31]. Three EstIA and two IngIA individuals also belonged to hg R1a, but three EstIA males belonged to hg N3a, the earliest so far observed in the Eastern Baltic. Three EstMA individuals belonged to hg N3a, two to hg R1a, and one to hg J2b. ChrY lineages found in the Baltic Sea region before the CWC belong to hgs I, R1b, R1a5, and Q [10, 11, 12, 13, 17, 32]. Thus, it appears that these lineages were substantially replaced in the Eastern Baltic by hg R1a [10, 11, 12, 13], most likely through steppe migrations from the east [30, 31]. Although we did not detect N3a chrYs in our BA sample, unlike in BA Fennoscandia [26], we cannot rule out its presence due to small sample size. However, the frequency should not exceed 0.17 with 95% and 0.25 with 99% confidence [33]. The frequency of hg N3a was significantly higher in our IA than our BA group (Fisher’s exact test p value 0.013). Our results enable us to conclude that, although the expansion time for R1a1 and N3a3′5 in Eastern Europe is similar [25], hg N3a likely reached Estonia or at least became comparably frequent to modern Estonia [1] only during the BA-IA transition."



    Last edited by Peterski; 05-10-2019 at 12:24 AM.
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    aR1an & hUnt4r-gatherer Artek's Avatar
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    As expected,

    it looks like an elite-domination model where an incursion of genes is largely Y-Chromosome related, moreso than in terms of autosomal DNA.

    The second signal is subtle, not exceeding few %. Looks like they didn't come with big families to settle with them but rather with fine weapons(?).

    Why? It seems to me that it had to be a warrior clan group that eventually continued to exercise their power even southwards, in Lithuania or Latvia where they were largely unable to impose the language. Please remember that Gediminids were N1c basing on descendants testing of Koriat (Karijotas). That of course may be a coincidence but I think it is not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artek View Post
    As expected,

    it looks like an elite-domination model where an incursion of genes is largely Y-Chromosome related, moreso than in terms of autosomal DNA.

    The second signal is subtle, not exceeding few %. Looks like they didn't come with big families to settle with them but rather with fine weapons(?).

    Why? It seems to me that it had to be a warrior clan group that eventually continued to exercise their power even southwards, in Lithuania or Latvia where they were largely unable to impose the language. Please remember that Gediminids were N1c basing on descendants testing of Koriat (Karijotas). That of course may be a coincidence but I think it is not.
    I don't know if you read the paper or just read the title (which by the way is hyperbolic and completely missleading) or what, but real conclusion I gather from this data is completely opposite of what you suggest, or even what the authors themselves suggest. Estonians seem to be direct descendants of the N1c1 conquerors.

    Modern Estonians have more Siberian affinity than the Iron Age proto-Finnics:

    result: Yorubas Nganasans EstBA Latvians 0.000567 2.81 31833 31560 480932
    result: Yorubas Nganasans EstIA EstBA -0.00067 -2.584 26508 26783 409486

    Latvians and Iron Age Estonians have identical distance to Nganasans in relation to EstBA.


    Also Iron Age Estonians are closer to Latvians than to Estonians:

    result: Yorubas EstIA : Estonians Latvians 0.0043 3.674

    So out of all modern populations Latvians are closest to Proto-Finnics and Estonians have received some extra Siberian from known Middle Age Finnish migrations.
    Gunz is all that matters



    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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    auringon syy & syy Harkonnen's Avatar
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    Also if you take closer look at the data you notice that the older N1c1 samples seem to actually lack the little Siberian component.


    Gunz is all that matters



    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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    Some of those Bronze Agers actually do get the red Siberian component on Admix

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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    So it looks like those N guys can be modelled with just some extra EHG or WSHG compared to Bronze Agers. This EHG/WSHG creates the 1 or 2% Siberian component in admix. According to isotopes they were non-locals, so it looks we have our FUs here.
    Gunz is all that matters



    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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