'Pig' British tourists to be deported from New Zealand after theft, littering, not paying for food

[The Lawspeaker]

English people have almost no proto celtic (hallstatt) blood, only bellbeaker "celtic" blood; continential Germanics will have a shed ton more real celtic blood than English. Every Germanic group has "celtic" admixture anyway, no one is "pure Germanic" so if England is celto-germanic, so is every other Germanic nation; but it's irrelevant as the identity of England is of a Germanic nation, as is the language, the history etc.

That's what I am telling you: so are the rest of us. Minus those up in the frozen North maybe (and even Iceland and the Faroe Islands have their Celtic admix).

[Grace O'Malley]

I don't see his problem - here in the Netherlands - we know that there was also a Celtic history and that there is a lot more Celtic blood in people in the South and in Belgium. For absolutely 1000000% pure Germanics you might want to go to Norway. Not even to Iceland or the Faroe Islands - they had a lot of Irish women there. Let's be frank here: the English are Celto-Germanics. Probably a lot more Germanic than Celtic and the Irish aren't pure Celts either and have a lot of English and Norse blood as well.

They are all very similar genetically either way. I mean all my ancestry is very deeply Irish for generations. I can't go back past the late 1700s though but these are my closest populations on the G25. On all my tests I come out uber Northwestern European without much other ancestry. I always have a pull towards Iceland but that might be something very old. My no 1 match ironically is with an Anglo-Saxon.

1 England_Saxon I0159 1.81
2 Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.876
3 Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.914
4 England_Saxon_Averaged Averaged 1.93
5 Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.964
6 Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.977
7 Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 1.98
13 English_Averaged Averaged 2.206
23 Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.336
36 English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.454
37 Dutch_Averaged Averaged 2.459
42 Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.494
61 Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.659
215 German_Averaged Averaged 3.333

[The Lawspeaker]

They are all very similar genetically either way. I mean all my ancestry is very deeply Irish for generations. I can't go back past the late 1700s though but these are my closest populations on the G25. On all my tests I come out uber Northwestern European without much other ancestry. I always have a pull towards Iceland but that might be something very old. My no 1 match ironically is with an Anglo-Saxon.

1 England_Saxon I0159 1.81
2 Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.876
3 Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.914
4 England_Saxon_Averaged Averaged 1.93
5 Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.964
6 Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.977
7 Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 1.98
13 English_Averaged Averaged 2.206
23 Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.336
36 English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.454
37 Dutch_Averaged Averaged 2.459
42 Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.494
61 Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.659
215 German_Averaged Averaged 3.333

Maybe it's better to speak of a Celto-Germanic Europe than a Celtic and Germanic Europe.

[Grace O'Malley]

English people have almost no proto celtic (hallstatt) blood, only bellbeaker "celtic" blood; continential Germanics will have a shed ton more real celtic blood than English. Every Germanic group has "celtic" admixture anyway, no one is "pure Germanic" so if England is celto-germanic, so is every other Germanic nation; but it's irrelevant as the identity of England is of a Germanic nation, as is the language, the history etc.

Irish are more distant to Hallstatt then English are though. I'm not sure Celtic is a genetic thing with the Insular Celts. It remains to be seen whether they have any Continental Celtic blood which would be quite controversial. I've looked at genetics for so long now I'm a bit blase about the Celtic vs Germanic thing which is what I was getting at in my post to you. I wasn't trying to get you upset as I've being looking at this question for quite a few years.

[Grace O'Malley]

The two Hallstatt genomes for anyone interested.

9 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average French_East_Averaged Averaged 3.607
15 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average German_Averaged Averaged 3.712
19 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average French_Averaged Averaged 3.771
20 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Belgian_Averaged Averaged 3.797
44 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Austrian_Averaged Averaged 3.996
56 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 4.088
68 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average English_Averaged Averaged 4.176
106 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 4.342
127 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average German_East_Averaged Averaged 4.425
136 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 4.447
143 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 4.484
172 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 4.58
222 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average French_South_Averaged Averaged 4.751
225 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Hungarian_Averaged Averaged 4.761
263 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Slovenian_Averaged Averaged 4.84
284 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 4.875
301 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 4.926
326 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Czech_Averaged Averaged 4.991
370 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Basque_French_Averaged Averaged 5.094
375 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Croatian_Averaged Averaged 5.106
389 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Spanish_Pais_Vasco_Averaged Averaged 5.127
411 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 5.164
418 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 5.184

Anglo-Saxons

1 England_Saxon:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.486
2 England_Saxon:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.488
7 England_Saxon:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 1.828
9 England_Saxon:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.836
10 England_Saxon:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.842
11 England_Saxon:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.853
22 England_Saxon:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 2.01
24 England_Saxon:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.018
31 England_Saxon:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.073
35 England_Saxon:Average English_Averaged Averaged 2.112
64 England_Saxon:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.394
208 England_Saxon:Average German_Averaged Averaged 3.113
458 England_Saxon:Average Belgian_Averaged Averaged 4.055

This perfectly illustrates what I've noticed as far as genetics are concerned which is the point I was making. Trying to work out Celt and Germanic from genetics is problematic. What is factual is that people from Northwestern Europe including the Insular Celts descend from pretty close populations during the Bronze Age. What happened after the Bronze Age is that these people evolved different language groups but they were all quite closely connected. Germans today have a legacy from Germanic speaking groups but also Celtic groups like Hallstatt. I've come to just look on myself as Northwestern European because that is what genetics says I am.

[PaleoEuropean]

Tourists of all nationalities can be jackasses, American, Asian, European. I don't think their nationality or ethnicity has much to do with their lack of proper upbringing or manners. They should be ashamed though.

[Roy]

The two Hallstatt genomes for anyone interested.

9 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average French_East_Averaged Averaged 3.607
15 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average German_Averaged Averaged 3.712
19 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average French_Averaged Averaged 3.771
20 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Belgian_Averaged Averaged 3.797
44 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Austrian_Averaged Averaged 3.996
56 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 4.088
68 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average English_Averaged Averaged 4.176
106 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 4.342
127 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average German_East_Averaged Averaged 4.425
136 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 4.447
143 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 4.484
172 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 4.58
222 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average French_South_Averaged Averaged 4.751
225 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Hungarian_Averaged Averaged 4.761
263 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Slovenian_Averaged Averaged 4.84
284 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 4.875
301 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 4.926
326 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Czech_Averaged Averaged 4.991
370 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Basque_French_Averaged Averaged 5.094
375 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Croatian_Averaged Averaged 5.106
389 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Spanish_Pais_Vasco_Averaged Averaged 5.127
411 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 5.164
418 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 5.184

Anglo-Saxons

1 England_Saxon:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.486
2 England_Saxon:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.488
7 England_Saxon:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 1.828
9 England_Saxon:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.836
10 England_Saxon:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.842
11 England_Saxon:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.853
22 England_Saxon:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 2.01
24 England_Saxon:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.018
31 England_Saxon:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.073
35 England_Saxon:Average English_Averaged Averaged 2.112
64 England_Saxon:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.394
208 England_Saxon:Average German_Averaged Averaged 3.113
458 England_Saxon:Average Belgian_Averaged Averaged 4.055

This perfectly illustrates what I've noticed as far as genetics are concerned which is the point I was making. Trying to work out Celt and Germanic from genetics is problematic. What is factual is that people from Northwestern Europe including the Insular Celts descend from pretty close populations during the Bronze Age. What happened after the Bronze Age is that these people evolved different language groups but they were all quite closely connected. Germans today have a legacy from Germanic speaking groups but also Celtic groups like Hallstatt. I've come to just look on myself as Northwestern European because that is what genetics says I am.

Wrong thread, as it sometimes happen to me as well, but it's cool to find out anyway.

[Bellbeaking]

The facts are though that they don't go to school. If they did they might do okay. There are some that have went on the earn degrees when they applied themselves.

These are two Traveller women that have graduated from University.




I don't think they necessarily descend from the lower rungs of Irish society as they appear to have originated from when the Plantations of Ulster started and they were just displaced Irish that took to the roads out of necessity and ended up creating the Traveller community. They now have deviated from the Irish and have formed their own cluster due to isolation, drift and consanguinity.

Interesting comment GO'M. It does seem like you are agreeing with me, that they descend from lower SES backgrounds, or at least lower than average. Many travellers leave the community and it seams reasonable that those who are more academically inclined or economically successful would be more likely to get stable jobs instead of live the lives of crime that many travelers do. There are not any adoption studies for Irish travelers that I can find, but my assumption would be that they do avg lower environment controlled IQ than non travelers. They don't go to school and life bad lifestyles, but culture is on the leash of the gene as it were, you would expect such a community to adopt a culture befitting of their genes. But I doubt anyone is ever going to study this so one can meerly speculate. Doubtless there are plenty of individual travelers who are very intelligent and academically capable, and most of the smart ones may never achieve much due to the culture they are surrounded by, which is of course regrettable.

I was just highlighting a common phenomenon in the British media that if someone does well they are British but if not they are Irish, Scots, etc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/f...over-1.3746835

I think people get a tad too upset about these things but it does hold a bit of truth. All these Irish Travelers were born in Britain so aren't they British? Not too fussed because a lot of Irish descended people in Britain are claimed by the British and I've no problem with it.

Most people of Celtic descent obviously just assimilate, but Irish travelers remain in their own breeding populations with their own customs and usually even have Irish traveler accents. Which is why people don't really consider them English or White British. They are a British ethnic group in a sense but they are not part of mainstream society. People don't consider them Irish either though, they are 'Irish Traveler' which is a very much separate identity to 'Irish'. In UK census forms this is reflected as you usually select from Options like White British, White Irish, Irish Traveler, White other etc.

[Dandelion]

Old news.

Some were deported. Others brought before the courts, charged, found guilty and left with a criminal record never to set foot here again.

The rest finished their holiday here continually photographed by NZ'ers for being the clown show they were. They complained of harassment but no fucks were given.

Most tourists are respectful and decent people enjoying their time here.

As culturally alien as they are, this is an approach very ressemblant to the Japanese way. Perhaps they were an influence on you after all. It's a good solution.