If the Croats came from some Iranic tribe, then why were the northern ones called "White Croats"?

[Roy]

Attachment 87878

It would seem to me, that the "original" ethnogenetive group would call itself by the simpler name, so they would simply be called "Croats". Why would the Croats that move south remove the "white" part of their name, if that truly was their entire ethnic name?

And it seems that I am on the right track here, as attested by Byzantine emperor of the 10th century:

"The Croats at that time were dwelling beyond Bagibareia (usually considered to be Bavaria), where the Belocroats are now. From them split off a family, namely of five brothers, Kloukas and Lobelos and Kosentzis and Mouchlo and Chrobatos, and two sisters, Touga and Bouga, who came with their folk to Dalmatia and found this land under the rule of the Avars. After they had fought one another for some years, the Croats prevailed and killed some of the Avars and the remainder they compelled to be subject to them... The rest of the Croats stayed over near Francia, and are now called the Belocroats, that is, the White Croats, and have their own archon; they are subject to Otto, the great king of Francia, which is also Saxony, and are unbaptized, and intermarry and are friendly with the Turks. From the Croats who came to Dalmatia, a part split off and took rule of Illyricum and Pannonia. They too had an independent archon, who would maintain friendly contact, though through envoys only, with the archon of Croatia... From that time they remained independent and autonomous, and they requested holy baptism from Rome, and bishops were sent and baptized them in the time of their Archon Porinos".[47]

So the ones that stayed in the North took on the name of "White Croats", while the ones who went down south retained their original name? Something's not right here. Perhaps they were originally from the South and then were forced to move north by the Romans centuries prior, and then changed their name to differentiate this new tribe that intermixed with the more pale-skinned peoples there? Food for thought.

Croats or earlier White Croats have never been an Iranic tribe, it is an obsolete theory. BTW am I the only who see that there's some interesting common link between West Slavic Polans & the existence of East Slavic Polans? Moreover there are apparently some still genetic links / affinities between Central Ukraine and Poland. Coincidence? I don't think so. Some R1a haplogroups are very common in both regions, while the rest of Ukraine has a heavier presence of I2a Y-DNA, there are also Poles who seem to score more affinity with Central Ukrainians than with ... Western ones that are geographically closer and you'd think should be more similar.









Polanie nad Wisłą i Dnieprem
Nestor wspomina, że od Słowian naddunajskich wywodzą się Lachowie, którzy osiedli nad Wisłą i od których wywodzą się Polanie, Pomorzanie, Mazowszanie i Lutycy. Pisze dalej, że wywodzą się od nich także osiadli nad Dnieprem Polanie. Z tekstu wynika, że Polanie znad Wisły mają coś wspólnego z tymi znad Dniepru.


Polanie nad Wisłą i Dnieprem
Nestor wspomina, że od Słowian naddunajskich wywodzą się Lachowie, którzy osiedli nad Wisłą i od których wywodzą się Polanie, Pomorzanie, Mazowszanie i Lutycy. Pisze dalej, że wywodzą się od nich także osiadli nad Dnieprem Polanie. Z tekstu wynika, że Polanie znad Wisły mają coś wspólnego z tymi znad Dniepru.

[Voyt]

Serbo Croat language heavy Turkish cuz.

Just because it has words borrowed from Turkish doesn't mean the underlying phonemic structure and grammar are Turkic.

Going back to the previous posts, this seems to support the idea that the Ukrainian "proto-Slav" theory makes little sense if the people surrounding Ukraine were Finns, the reindeer-herders: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_...tannica/Budini

These Budini were supposedly all over Ukraine and surrounding it, and if they were driven north by the Scythians then where does this leave room for a Slavic ethnogenesis? The only thing that fits into the narrative is if Slavs were Illyrians/Thracians all along, and they moved north during Rome's first few centuries after Christ.

These Scythians were R1a people, the very same ancestors of those that split off and went to invade Persia and India.

[Voyt]

Bulgarian is probably closest to proto-Slavic and I'm being very unbiased. Northern Slavic languages have zero to do with Celto-Germanic and are the worst sounding. I'd rather listen to fingernails scraping a chalkboard.

True, I should have said "closest north Slavic language"

Bulgarian is not that far from Serbo-Croatian, and Thracians were most likely close to the Illyrians, i.e. both were the original Slavs

[Dick]

Bulgarian is not that far from Serbo-Croatian, and Thracians were most likely close to the Illyrians, i.e. both were the original Slavs

It's far. the Bulgarian bros Cyril and Methodius spread the Gospel in proto-Slavonic bro. Serbo-croatian changed in the 18th century for the worse imo. too many italian and german words were added such as spageti, vino, prsut, srafciger, sofer sajbna, flasa, pichweiss etc.

[Voyt]

Croats or earlier White Croats have never been an Iranic tribe, it is an obsolete theory.

Didn't know that it was an obsolete theory; then Wiki shoulds state as such. What a disingenuous site. But then the question becomes, how did Croat and Serb place names reach all the way to Iran? I'm guessing that there was always an ancient connection between Persia and the Balkans, and perhaps the ancient Slavs in the Balkans sent some small tribe east, and it grew there enough to have its own placenames.

BTW am I the only who see that there's some interesting common link between West Slavic Polans & the existence of East Slavic Polans? Moreover there are apparently some still genetic links / affinities between Central Ukraine and Poland. Coincidence? I don't think so. Some R1a haplogroups are very common in both regions, while the rest of Ukraine has a heavier presence of I2a Y-DNA, there are also Poles who seem to score more affinity with Central Ukrainians than with ... Western ones that are geographically closer and you'd think should be more similar.

No such thing as coincidences. Central Ukraine was always a major hub for civilizations due to the Dniepr River. The R1a Sarmatians/Scythians intermixed with the Balkan original Slavs and adopted their language, and then during the great migrations moved west and south, taking over shit along the way.

The I2a that stayed behind in Ukraine would have chosen to do so because of the superior soil there (although Pannonia was not a bad option either, but it was held by Germanic and Avar tribes).

Poland was always more of an east Germanic land, but the fact that they have R1a now is due to being invaded by the Sarmatians. They still have closer genetics to Germans though than to other Slavs.

Perhaps the region in central Poland just had more Sarmatian settlement than the rest. Can you describe what differentiates that area from the rest of Poland in terms of resources or culture maybe? I'm not familiar.

[Voyt]

It's far. the Bulgarian bros Cyril and Methodius spread the Gospel in proto-Slavonic bro. Serbo-croatian changed in the 18th century for the worse imo. too many italian and german words were added such as spageti, vino, prsut, srafciger, sofer sajbna, flasa, pichweiss etc.

Respectfully, I don't think you know what "proto" means. It cannot be proto-Slavonic if they thought it up all the way in AD800. Slavic language is much older than that. It's older than even Illyrian/Thracian civilizational delineations. Look up Vinca culture and Starcevo culture. The Hittites got their iron-making from the Balkans. Veneti were Slavs, as were Etruscans.

Again, just because it has a lot of adopted words from other languages is not proof of its pronunciation and underlying grammar being corrupted.

Bulgaria was invaded by Turkics far before Serbo-Croatia was; it's ethnonym is Turkic for Christ's sake!

Getting back to the main topic, more proof "Rus" is a Finnic name: https://community.dur.ac.uk/a.k.harr.../origirus.html

Why would a genetically Slavic country call themselves by a Finnic name? Well because they weren't genetically Slavic, but Finnic people that militarily allied with the R1a/I2 soldiers.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Croatians are not a fucking Iranian tribe, where did you get this from? Clearly Serb propaganda again LMFAO