Rampant Cannibalism Plagues South Africa - by VertigoPolitix

[Kazimiera]

In other words: you simply cannot end a life without the patient's informed consent and each individual case is reviewed by both an independent doctor and an independent panel. Anything else is against the law. And mind you: the consent has to be written and undersigned by the patient himself. More regarding the nature and the conditions set to administrating euthanasie can be found at rijksoverheid.nl. As for the number of requests "honoured", the number seems to be under 9 percent of all requests (in 2016) anyway (Trouw, 7 december 2017) but we may need to be careful with those figures as the measurements of the Levenseindekliniek seem to be based on individual categories (illness and condition) and according to all bar association Pro Vita, two thirds of all requests still come from cancer patients. This Trouw article notes a high dose of people with the onset of dementia asking for euthanasia but the numbers of requests being honoured is falling as there have been a couple of cases in which the Prosecution Office has launched an investigation into the goings on. And it's my suspicion that a lot of these patients had this stated in their will but then were, afflicted to the disease as they were at a later date, no longer able to affirm this consent but since the will stood the decision was made which is technically possible (here is the procedure on thuisarts.nl) but may be wrongfully used by people who may have bad intentions with someone who has originally signed the required documentation but who is, later, no longer able to affirm or deny consent. For a sample form: click here.

So what can we deduce from all these figures ?

1. Euthanasia is rare. So even if 9 percent of all requests is approved, we still need to place this is in the number of those of those passing away in the Netherlands: 4.4 percent of all deaths can be attributed to assisted suicide.

2. The procedures are extremely strict and have quite a few levels of safety features built into them. The law is watching over the doctors and goes after anyone they perceive to be "slipping up" in any conceivable way.

3. The weakness in the system lays, perhaps, in the consent forms and that there is, perhaps, no procedure to re-affirm and re-affirm.

All in all: while being against euthanasia myself - I believe that the procedure, essentially, is sound.

The biggest difficulty is that of consent in the cases of people with dementia.

If the person makes the decision to opt for euthanasia if they develop dementia, should that living will be taken into consideration when they do develop it? Should they be euthanised as per their wishes when they were competent to give consent?

If that person who made the living will suddenly decides, once they have developed dementia, that they don't want to die are they in effect capable of making a decision to live with consent?

Here is a case where a demented woman was forcibly euthanised: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...euthanasia-law

Now, getting back to the impression that cannibals are running rampant in South Africa is as ludicrous as using the above article to support the argument that all people with dementia are being euthanised against their will in the Netherlands.

Yes, the Dutch system is sound (relatively speaking and excluding the cases like the article I linked). The issue is that you cannot take an example like the one I posted and automatically deduct from it that this happening all over the Netherlands, which it isn't.

Likewise, one cannot deduct that things are as bad as the media makes out - on whether it's the Netherlands, SA or any other country. The media (and hence consumers of that media) are put under false impressions. Depending on which side of the fence one is sitting, one can pull up articles and stats from anywhere to support one's point of view.

So, saying that things are awful in South Africa (said by someone who has never been in SA) is as crazy as me jumping to conclusions about the practice of euthanasia in the Netherlands (someone who has never been or worked in the Netherlands).

What brought about this debate in the first place was me being touchy about the amount of articles you post which casts South Africa in a wholly negative light. If it's not one horrible article, then it's another. Yes, there are some crazy things happening here but it isn't as doom and gloom as the media (and you who consumes that media) make it out to be. There are hardly any positive reports about anything (worldwide) because good stuff hardly ever makes the headlines. I mean, who wants to read about (as an example) neighbours being kind to each other when there are other juicy headlines ready for consumption? It is human nature to lean towards the negative because it is far more interesting and exciting than stories about good events.

Cood on you, now that's me told off.

Here's the thing, "dudette": The fact that you live there and told me nothing substantive and only answered dismissively, changes nothing from I saw and heard and the dozens of Afrikaner I met and befriended as either co workers or touring South African wine country. In fact, if you talk to a an American from say upper east side Manhattan vs some one living in the outskirts of Detroit vs someone from Southern California vs someone living near an Omaha reservation their optimism as well as pessimism will shed according to each of their locations. Some won't even mind, know or care that now we've got the wonders of palo Mayumba within our borders or the fact that Minneapolis might as well be renamed little Mogadishu in a few years time or the fact that some Latin American kingpins now have weed farms in our national parks. Most of my South African contacts are over 42 to 70(that kindly hit me up every once in a while) and they can say even with utmost weariness, how their lives have worsened and how the murder rate is something beyond anything they could've feared circa 1986, add to that some Rhodesians and Portuguese that left Zimbabwe and Angola with nothing but the clothes on their backs and practically have fuck where else to go and all they've left to do is watch history repeat itself.
I tend to hold little stock on what South African whites born after 1981 tell me for the same reason I do Americans born after 1954 regarding post-War on Poverty/Hart–Celler Act America, they've been told in their schools nonstop about how they're the bane of the planet and will wave off their parents as backwards racists or pansies, often thinking this turn for the worse was some divine duty or feel embitterd or cheated by their forebears based on the numbers and results. I left the place with a tupperware full of leftovers a darling woman stored for my plane ride, a rugby shirt, a rand note that's worth next to nothing in this country and dread when leaving those people that bade me farewell on my way to the airport, knowing not what laid in store. The news aren't getting better nor is their outlook. And I'm not Dutch myself like the Lawpeaker whom in all likelihood must feel a greater kinship to them than I.

But y'know what? this is indeed the right approach, now, when someone opens up a thread about America out of sheer concern or sorrow for the current state of affairs, that would never have taken place 50 odd years ago there. Like say; the fact that California's bleeding out its middle class and is looking more like some technocratic Medieval kingdom full of serf and plagues. I'll just pop in and say:

"Whatevah! Y'all don't know nut'in'. I happen to live in 'Muricah and ya'll be jealous of our freedums. Cash me outside!"

And just for you, next time I'm phoned via Whatsapp or emailed. I'll be sure to tell one of those treacherous South Africans dragging its fine name through the mud that they should get over their slain relations or stolen property, thanks. I've see the light now.

"Whatevah! Y'all don't know nut'in'. I happen to live in 'Muricah and ya'll be jealous of our freedums. Cash me outside!"

Huh? Sorry, but I don't speak American.

Now that you have lightened your load, I still don't understand what argument you want me to make?

[The Lawspeaker]

The biggest difficulty is that of consent in the cases of people with dementia.

If the person makes the decision to opt for euthanasia if they develop dementia, should that living will be taken into consideration when they do develop it? Should they be euthanised as per their wishes when they were competent to give consent?

If that person who made the living will suddenly decides, once they have developed dementia, that they don't want to die are they in effect capable of making a decision to live with consent?

Here is a case where a demented woman was forcibly euthanised: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...euthanasia-law

Now, getting back to the impression that cannibals are running rampant in South Africa is as ludicrous as using the above article to support the argument that all people with dementia are being euthanised against their will in the Netherlands.

Yes, the Dutch system is sound (relatively speaking and excluding the cases like the article I linked). The issue is that you cannot take an example like the one I posted and automatically deduct from it that this happening all over the Netherlands, which it isn't.

Likewise, one cannot deduct that things are as bad as the media makes out - on whether it's the Netherlands, SA or any other country. The media (and hence consumers of that media) are put under false impressions. Depending on which side of the fence one is sitting, one can pull up articles and stats from anywhere to support one's point of view.

So, saying that things are awful in South Africa (said by someone who has never been in SA) is as crazy as me jumping to conclusions about the practice of euthanasia in the Netherlands (someone who has never been or worked in the Netherlands).

What brought about this debate in the first place was me being touchy about the amount of articles you post which casts South Africa in a wholly negative light. If it's not one horrible article, then it's another. Yes, there are some crazy things happening here but it isn't as doom and gloom as the media (and you who consumes that media) make it out to be. There are hardly any positive reports about anything (worldwide) because good stuff hardly ever makes the headlines. I mean, who wants to read about (as an example) neighbours being kind to each other when there are other juicy headlines ready for consumption? It is human nature to lean towards the negative because it is far more interesting and exciting than stories about good events.






Huh? Sorry, but I don't speak American.

Now that you have lightened your load, I still don't understand what argument you want me to make?

The difference between the Netherlands and South Africa is that you have one case - and there is immediate prosecution - while in South Africa there is a whole litany of crime cases (it's the rape capital of the world and the number of farm murders is insane). where either prosecution sometimes takes place or where the perpetrators are excused on account of their race. It would be crazy to deny that the South Africa is very volatile when there is clearly a situation that is very explosive and a political class that is either looking away from the issue or encouraging it altogether.




Indeed: according to the above SAPS was even told not to publish any statistics regarding farm murders back in 2007 until the high court in Pretoria forced them to do so a couple of years ago. If the above number should make around 6000 where, according to the article, some 125.000 live in a farm, that is a shocking number and, of course, those are just the white victims so I can imagine that the true number is at double or triple that number. I think we both know exactly why they were told not to publish those figures: bad for the reputation of the ruling ANC - better not talk about the bad stuff, eh ? So, yes, there is something deeply wrong in South Africa and a "there is nothing going on - don't be so negative" attitude is exactly the same portrayed here by the Leftist media about migrant crime and terrorism in Europe.

[Decius]

This is what happens when you let niggers control the gov.

[FountainOfSalmacis]

All these African countries used to be richer than Japan and China in the 60s. Once Europeans left they became shitholes.

[The Lawspeaker]

This is what happens when you let niggers control the gov.

It's not my choice of words but.. essentially. I hate to say it but, yes, that's what happens when you have people with a 20th century mindset (1994) hand over power to those with a stone-age mentality.

[The Lawspeaker]

All these African countries used to be richer than Japan and China in the 60s. Once Europeans left they became shitholes.

Correct, yes. The British Gold Coast used to be comparable to Southern Italy in wealth (which, of course, is still poor for European standards) and was wealthier than war-torn Korea during the late 1950s. Then came independence. I think we all know what happened. The Belgian Congo was relatively well off and stable between the 1930s and 1950s... then came independence.