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Thread: Can apostasy in Christianity be forgiven?

  1. #11
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    Our lord, Jesus Christ, is the most forgiving and merciful to all human beings. Don't worry, Christianity isn't like Islam.

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    Bear with me, but I do feel the need to comment on this thread yet again. While I offered several explanations previously, I do not find I have satisfactorily answered the question. This is, after all, one of the most difficult verses in the Bible to understand. Yet it is all too easy to wrest to ones destruction (2 Peter 3:16).

    Let me state simply, this passageas well as the other warning passages in Hebrewsseems to fall into place if we understand them in light of the coming destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. I have heard this before, and never quite believed it. But there are a few important clues pointing to this that I wanted to share, so that hopefully my proposal may benefit anyone having doubts about this.

    Here is a helpful chart. But first you ought to realize that "salvation" in the Bible can refer to five distinct phases (eternal, for God's eternal, electing decree of salvation; legal, for Christ's life, death, and resurrection for His elect; vital, for regeneration by the Holy Spirit, or being born again, which is done sometime in life for those who are already legally children of God; practical, for the conversion to the truth and obedience that discipleship entails; and final, for our final destiny). Scripture refers distinctly to each phase: eternal (2 Timothy 1:9), legal (1 Timothy 1:15), vital (Titus 3:5), practical (1 Timothy 4:16), and final (Romans 13:11). For example, Peter's preaching in Acts 2 exhorted the listeners to save themselves from that untoward generation (Acts 2:40). This is in the domain of the practical phase of salvation, since it involves man's cooperation and obedience. It is not the same as the salvation that God has purposed from eternity for His elect in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 1:3-6), as God gives eternal life to whomever He chooses without regard for man's will or works. (Psalm 65:4; John 1:12-13, 3:1-10, 6:39, 17:2; Acts 13:48; Romans 9:13-24).

    Hebrews.png



    Although full preterism (the argument that all Bible prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD) is heresy, there are prophecies that most modern evangelicals fail to realize were already fulfilled. For example, most evangelicals today look to a future fulfillment of the Olivet Discourse recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. This is erroneous, as Jesus is prophesying here of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. That includes such phrases as the stars shall fall from heaven (Matthew 24:29) which is prophetic (metaphorical) language pertaining to the destruction of Jerusalem, not the Second Coming.

    For more on this, read the following pages:

    https://letgodbetrue.com/sermons/ind...ness-of-70-ad/

    https://letgodbetrue.com/sermons/ind...el-millennium/

    https://letgodbetrue.com/sermons/ind...012/preterism/

    A very important clue is the verse immediately preceding the warning in the tenth chapter of Hebrews. Are these four warnings not essentially all one? Therefore, if we can figure one of them out, we can figure them all out. We can also figure out which phase of salvation they pertain to. See Hebrews 10:25:

    Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

    Pay particular attention to the phrase, ... as ye see the day approaching.

    Which day? Is it the Second Coming of Christ? It cannot be, because numerous passages in the Bible tell us we dont know the day or the hour, and that there will be no specific warnings preceding it. Therefore, we cannot see it approaching. Furthermore, the Apostle Paul said that the Second Coming of Christ cannot happen until the man of sin is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:1-10). This passage is obviously referring to the Second Coming, as the destruction of Jerusalem was of no concern to the Thessalonians. That prophecy was yet unfulfilled in Paul's lifetime. (It has since been fulfilled, as the "man of sin" refers collectively to all the popes.)

    In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus tells His disciples of specific signs to watch for that signify the coming destruction of Jerusalem. In fact, many Jewish Christians did escape by doing exactly as Jesus commanded, and fleeing to the mountains.

    Likewise, consider verse 6:8, that it is "nigh unto cursing" that being the Jewish nation but already it "is rejected." See Galatians 4:21-31, which shows that the nation of Israel is compared to the rejected son of Abraham, Ishmael, under the bondage of the law; but the children of promise are compared to Isaac and are the spiritual seed of both Jews and Gentiles (Romans 2:28-29).

    So we see that the warning passages in Hebrews which seem to suggest a possibility of a loss of salvation (totally impossible, as Jesus will never lose a single one that the Father has given to Him John 6:39, 10:27, 17:2; Romans 8:28-39) actually foretell the coming destruction of Jerusalem, and the practical destruction of those backsliding to Mosess religion along with it.
    Psalm 19:1-3:

    1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

    2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

    3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppo900 View Post
    Our lord, Jesus Christ, is the most forgiving and merciful to all human beings. Don't worry, Christianity isn't like Islam.
    Says the apostate who lied about being a christian to gain sympathy

    judas
    et in misericordia tua dissipabis inimicos meos et perdes omnes ligantes animam meam ego enim sum servus tuus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vojnik View Post
    So nothing can save you after you think that? You are doomed if you think that from the heart? Even if someone thought that in the past, but no longer believes it..
    Thinking is different from action+meaning it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post

    Although full preterism (the argument that all Bible prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD) is heresy, there are prophecies that most modern evangelicals fail to realize were already fulfilled. For example, most evangelicals today look to a future fulfillment of the Olivet Discourse recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. This is erroneous, as Jesus is prophesying here of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. That includes such phrases as “the stars shall fall from heaven” (Matthew 24:29) which is prophetic (metaphorical) language pertaining to the destruction of Jerusalem, not the Second Coming.
    Majority of Christians fall under AMillennialism, Partial Preterism and some Milleniarism.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    It seems to me that the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the sin of unbelief—specifically, final unbelief, not temporal—as Jesus clarifies that you are either for Him or against Him (see Matthew 12:25-30). Moreover, Jesus says to the Pharisees that anyone who speaks “a word” against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but when speaking about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, does not likewise say “a word”—rather, just speaks (Matthew 12:32... see also Luke 12:10 where such an asymmetry is established). The Apostle Paul was a Pharisee as well, who persecuted Christians before his conversion, and wrote in Romans 11:23 that if the Jews do not persist in unbelief, then God is able to graft them back in.
    I've heard this being claimed, but from the Biblical example of Jesus, it seems to be specifically about calling God (the Holy Spirit) the devil -- claiming that the Holy Spirit is evil. This seems to be the thing that God really dislikes. And one can understand why. This is also something that we encounter quite a bit these days... when certain people, for example, say that people who receieve the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues, are actually demon-possessed. This is a very serious error in God's eye...because it insults God himself.
    "

    Isaiah 9:6

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

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    Christianity is nothing like Islam. Christianity is a religion of love and forgiveness, like our Lord Jesus thought us. If you truly regret your sins in your heart, you can be sure our Lord knows it and He's merciful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutone View Post
    Says the apostate who lied about being a christian to gain sympathy

    judas
    Keep your retarded beliefs to your self. Yes, apostasy in Christianity is punishable by death. It's just that most Christians don't know their bibles very well nor have they read it.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorgo View Post
    Christianity is nothing like Islam. Christianity is a religion of love and forgiveness, like our Lord Jesus thought us. If you truly regret your sins in your heart, you can be sure our Lord knows it and He's merciful.
    You forgot to say "LOL" at the end. Have you read the bible and the old testament by any chance? Apostasy is punishable by death in Christianity, rofl. "If you don't believe in Jesus, you'll get executed in the name of the cross"



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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppo900 View Post
    Keep your retarded beliefs to your self. Yes, apostasy in Christianity is punishable by death. It's just that most Christians don't know their bibles very well nor have they read it.
    No, it is not. You don't know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorgo View Post
    Christianity is nothing like Islam. Christianity is a religion of love and forgiveness, like our Lord Jesus thought us. If you truly regret your sins in your heart, you can be sure our Lord knows it and He's merciful.
    +1

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