Can apostasy in Christianity be forgiven?

[TheMaestro]

Why not, believe in something your hearts lead you to.

[Token]

It sounds to me like you were merely studying Christianity from afar, uninvolved personally and not committing your soul. You missed the whole point. The Bible says you must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven. Accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour, and be baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, then you will receive the gift of the Father (the Spirit of Truth that the world cannot receive and cannot know). This is all the truth, 100%. And you can have this too, and your life will never be the same again.

Words of Jesus himself: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
Gentiles can be saved, but none other than those of the tribes of Israel will be among the sealed.

[Wanderer]

Words of Jesus himself: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
Gentiles can be saved, but none other than those of the tribes of Israel will be among the sealed.

You don't have any idea what you're talking about. The true Israel is spiritual, not carnal. Spiritual Israel is comprised of Jews and Gentiles after the flesh who have been born again.

John 10:16:

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Acts 10:34-35:

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Romans 2:28-29:

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 9:6-8:

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Romans 10:12:

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Galatians 3:28:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Revelation 7:9-10:

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

[Loki]

Words of Jesus himself: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
Gentiles can be saved, but none other than those of the tribes of Israel will be among the sealed.

Don't pretend to know anything about the Christian faith, please. You don't. Read your Bible.

[Zroota]

Hypocrisy much? What you're doing here is a complete contradiction on what you're saying in this thread. If so then why do you keep demonizing all Muslims and Islam then? Jesus was a man, not a god.

Couldn't care less about Christianity and Jesus, but Islam should be persistently demonised (including its radical followers). Why you are being like that regressive leftist who usually brings up Islam and treat like it's something special and no different to Christianity? Nah bro, not all religions are equally bad. And not all cultures are equal. You are pretty vocal when it comes to all these politically incorrect things, but you still seem to have a Muslim bias. You dislike Trump because he favours Christians and Jews over Muslims. And you probably wouldn't like me if I said a Muslim is more likely to be a terrorist than a Christian or a Jew.

Oh and why are you frequently jumping between religions? Raised a Muslim, converted to atheism, then to Christianity and now you're an atheist again where you took a 180 degree turn by mocking the Christian beliefs in the same thread where you said Christianity is a peaceful religion? Um, okay? This is an honest question. I'm not having a go at you. What are you trying to do here? You're a pretty normal and approachable dude. I am just concerned. And I know you're banned (guessing it's not a permanent one?). So I hope you answer this. You can respond privately if you want. I am really curious.

P.S. Apostasy is punishable by death in Judaism. As an ex-Christian, I think you should know that these harsh laws were in the Old Testament. The New Testament doesn't mention death for apostates, but that they will "fall away".

[Kamal900]

Couldn't care less about Christianity and Jesus, but Islam should be persistently demonised (including its radical followers). Why you are being like that regressive leftist who usually brings up Islam and treat like it's something special and no different to Christianity? Nah bro, not all religions are equally bad. And not all cultures are equal. You are pretty vocal when it comes to all these politically incorrect things, but you still seem to have a Muslim bias. You dislike Trump because he favours Christians and Jews over Muslims. And you probably wouldn't like me if I said a Muslim is more likely to be a terrorist than a Christian or a Jew.

Oh and why are you frequently jumping between religions? Raised a Muslim, converted to atheism, then to Christianity and now you're an atheist again where you took a 180 degree turn by mocking the Christian beliefs in the same thread where you said Christianity is a peaceful religion? Um, okay? This is an honest question. I'm not having a go at you. What are you trying to do here? You're a pretty normal and approachable dude. I am just concerned. And I know you're banned (guessing it's not a permanent one?). So I hope you answer this. You can respond privately if you want. I am really curious.

P.S. Apostasy is punishable by death in Judaism. As an ex-Christian, I think you should know that these harsh laws were in the Old Testament. The New Testament doesn't mention death for apostates, but that they will "fall away".

I don't disagree with you on the fact that Muslims are more of a danger than anything, and really, I'm no longer going to be inflammatory against anyone's religion and so on. The only reason why attacked the guy was mostly based on political grounds with religion mixed in. I don't care on what other people's beliefs and so on. I have apologized to Loki for it so it's all good.

[Wanderer]

I've heard this being claimed, but from the Biblical example of Jesus, it seems to be specifically about calling God (the Holy Spirit) the devil -- claiming that the Holy Spirit is evil. This seems to be the thing that God really dislikes. And one can understand why. This is also something that we encounter quite a bit these days... when certain people, for example, say that people who receieve the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues, are actually demon-possessed. This is a very serious error in God's eye...because it insults God himself.

Regarding the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, in the time of Christ's earthly ministry, He explains that this was committed by those who accused Him of casting out devils by the power of Satan. But Jesus also explains some of the logic behind His saying - essentially, that you are either with Him or against Him; and that if He casts out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon them (Matthew 12:28-30).

To understand what this sin might be today, we should understand a little something about the ministry of the Holy Spirit today, and the kingdom of God today, as established by Jesus Christ. By one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body (1 Cor 12:13). Christ baptizes His elect with the Holy Ghost (John 1:33), giving them that full assurance that they seek and need (Luke 11:5-13). Paul explains that this event is when one is sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13-14), Who is given as an earnest in our hearts (2 Cor 1:22). An earnest is basically a pledge. And who can open what God seals? Therefore, we have been translated into the kingdom (Col 1:13). This has already happened for believers. It's God's pledge of Divine Love.

Jesus is not in our midst casting out devils today, but His Spirit dwells within His Body, and believers make up His Body (1 Cor 6:15-20). It's the perfect love of God, communicated to the heart by His Spirit (Gal 4:6) that casts out fear (1 John 4:18) as Christ likewise also cast out devils by the same Spirit.

But some people teach you can lose salvation; some even say that eternal security is a doctrine of devils. Those who say such things show that they are not in Christ's kingdom, and they show that Christ's Spirit is not in them, just as the Pharisees showed this specifically by the evil words they spoke (Matthew 12:33-37). Likewise, in contemplating the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, Jesus says that all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven. Again, this speaks to the eternal security of the believer. But the one who shall attack this teaching commits sin, which sin also specifically shows he has no knowledge of God’s grace and is unsaved. Jesus even phrases it this way in Mark 10:29: “But he that *shall* blaspheme against the Holy Ghost [...]” which suggests this sin is more so evidentially than intrinsically unforgivable.

Who is it that speaks against the Holy Spirit today if it is not those who speak against the Spirit of grace, the Spirit of adoption, the Spirit of promise? There were no "converted" disciples on earth during the time of Jesus’s ministry - Jesus even said that John the Baptist was less than the least in His kingdom (Matthew 11:11). Jesus told His disciples that unless they are *converted* and become as little children, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 18:3). That childlike faith demands eternal security, total reliance on God and zero reliance on the flesh. Jesus Christ did establish His kingdom, even though it comes not with observation (Luke 17:20-21) and is not of this world (John 18:36). Paul teaches that when Jesus returns, He will have delivered up the kingdom to God (1 Cor 15:24). Paul teaches that the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Rom 14:17).

The church began at Pentecost - because Jesus had to be glorified first before the Spirit was given (John 7:37-39). So, of necessity, we must infer that the Spirit’s ministry is not quite the same now as it was then. The Holy Spirit came upon only certain individuals for certain purposes prior to Pentecost. Jesus speaks of the ministry of the Comforter as something that was not yet happening (John 16:7). And the promise in Joel and in Acts is clearly stated and restated, respectively, that God would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh. So if anyone speaks against the Holy Spirit today, they are speaking against His current ministry rather than His former ministries. If I preached the Law of Moses as the way to salvation, I'd be preaching a false gospel. Yet, during the time of the law, that was not so. The Holy Spirit today is baptizing God's elect into the Body of Christ (not with water) and is witnessing to their spirits that they are children of God - and if children, their heirs (Rom 8:16-17). The Holy Spirit is given as that earnest and seal of our inheritance. This was not happening in Christ's earthly ministry.

Jesus told the 70 not to rejoice because the spirits were subject to them, but to rejoice because their names were written in heaven (Luke 10:20). Likewise, He tells His disciples that it is expedient for Him to depart - because it won't be until He departs that He will send the Spirit to them (John 16:7). Are we to imagine that Jesus is merely talking about the miracles of the Spirit?! No, of course not! He said otherwise in Luke 10:20. How can we escape the logic here that Jesus is talking about the gift of the Spirit as a witness to the security of their salvation, of their secure placement in the promised everlasting covenant? This was secured by Christ's work on the cross. This is the promise of the Spirit that is received by faith (Gal 3:2, 14). If someone, though perhaps they profess the name of Christ, speaks against the Spirit in this way, we are simply not dealing with a believer.

Nevertheless, true believers can to some extent be bewitched by false doctrine (Gal 3:1) and "fall from grace" in their own understanding of salvation (Gal 5:4) - yet probably not for long. God is gracious to His own children.

[Garrett]

“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us” (1 John‬ 2:19‬ NKJV‬‬). As I stated previously, I don’t think that a truly regenerate person can lose his or her salvation. By the way, God never rejects true repentance. There is not one instance in Scripture where God rejects true repentance. He rejects false repentance, but not true repentance. Judas’ repentance in Matthew 27:3-10 was not genuine; however, Peter’s repentance after denying the Lord three times was genuine. If I have truly repented (which I have), then I have nothing to be worried about.

[Garrett]

My post was much longer than this, but got lost (sigh). I might have to work on rewriting it later.

[Garrett]

Thanks to everyone (and especially Wanderer) for the replies. This will be my last post on this site. A lapse in faith (which is what I had) is not a permanent fall from grace. Hebrews 6:4-6 no longer bothers me at all. There are several ways one can interpret that passage. I haven’t studied the text in depth (I need to at some point), but I believe in the argumentum ad absurdum interpretation of that passage. I don’t think that I am an apostate because I have repented and have faith in Christ. I also don’t believe that a true believer can lose his or her salvation. John 6:39-40; 10:27-30; Romans 8:28-30; 8:35-39; Philippians 1:6; etc. teaches that it is impossible for salvation to be lost. Once one has been sealed with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14; 2 Corinthians 1:22), then that person is guaranteed to be glorified (Romans 8:28-30). No one is able to snatch us out of the Son’s hand or the Father’s hand (John 10:27-29). Those who believe that you can lose your salvation contradict the passages mentioned above. I firmly believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints (also known as eternal security). I’m not sure whether or not apostasy is the unpardonable sin. It very well could be. However, the context in which the unpardonable sin was mentioned was during Jesus’ ministry. The Pharisees were claiming that Jesus was performing his miracles by the power of Satan and that he was possessed by a demon. Jesus then responded by saying this: “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation” — because they said, ‘He has an unclean spirit.’” (Mark‬ 3:28-30‬ NKJV‬‬). Notice how the text says “because they said, ‘He has an unclean spirit.’” It was because of what they said that he mentioned the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. So while it is possible that apostasy could be the unforgivable sin, I don’t think it is. The unforgivable sin is to do what the Pharisees did in this passage. By the way, I don’t think anyone has committed the unpardonable sin if they are worried about it. Those who have committed the unpardonable sin are so hardened against Christ that they will never worry whether or not they have committed it. I also don’t think that it is possible that a true believer can commit the unpardonable sin. Only the unregenerate (unbelievers) can, which is what the Pharisees were.

I also want to say this: Apostates were never true believers to begin with, as 1 John‬ 2:19‬ (NKJV)‬‬ states: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” As I stated previously, I don’t think that a truly regenerate person can lose his or her salvation. By the way, God never rejects true repentance. There is not one instance in Scripture where God rejects true repentance. He rejects false repentance, but not true repentance. Judas’ repentance in Matthew 27:3-10 was not genuine; however, Peter’s repentance after denying the Lord three times was genuine. If I have truly repented (which I have), then I have nothing to be worried about.