Scandinavian origin of Rurik confirmed

[Pansarkamrat]

They should be grateful we allowed them to plow our fields and become white people

You should be grateful that they improved your race and enriched it. Their mongoloid genes are strong and that can bee seen among many Swedes. Darker hair, eyes, big cheekbones, smal eyes and round heads has become more and more comon in Sweden over 15% of Swedes have Finno-Ugric blood.

[PaleoEuropean]

You should be grateful that they improved your race and enriched it. Their mongoloid genes are strong and that can bee seen among many Swedes. Darker hair, eyes, big cheekbones, smal eyes and round heads has become more and more comon in Sweden over 15% of Swedes have Finno-Ugric blood.

[Dick]

I thought the Rurik dude was i2?

[farke1]

They should be grateful we allowed them to plow our fields and become white people

You should be thankful that interbreeding with R1a+b *literally* allowed you to become white people.
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...l#pigmentation

It's fine to say that people belonging to I1 were the indigenous inhabitants of Europe or whatever since that's actually true - but you constantly seem to be spreading false posts on this forum about how anyone from haplogroup I was blonde-haired, blue eyed, and white; and everyone belonging to either R1a/R1b looks like a cross between an Iranian and a gypsy - when in reality, there's never been even a shred of evidence to support either of those claims.

[Ford]

They aren't real Scandinavians either. Just people we enslaved or let in because they had stuff we wanted like metal.

[PaleoEuropean]

You should be thankful that interbreeding with R1a+b *literally* allowed you to become white people.
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...l#pigmentation

It's fine to say that people belonging to I1 were the indigenous inhabitants of Europe or whatever since that's actually true - but you constantly seem to be spreading false posts on this forum about how anyone from haplogroup I was blonde-haired, blue eyed, and white; and everyone belonging to either R1a/R1b looks like a cross between an Iranian and a gypsy - when in reality, there's never been even a shred of evidence to support either of those claims.

XD Indo-Aryans are Asiatic, you guys are yellow deep down. All joking aside, Pale skin and blue eyes are a trademark of Baltic Hunter Gatherers. Language means little, it spreads through trade, which is why we are all speaking English as our main form of communication. Turkish people speak a Turkic language and have small amounts of Turkic Haplogroups. Indo-Aryans had lighter skin, but most Asians in that area do, they also broke away from the other Asians and interbred with Iranian hunter gatherers to create pro-Iranians and later Indo-Iranians. I am halfway joking, so taking what I say with more than a grain of salt is futile.

"First, the scientists confirmed an earlier report that the hunter-gatherers in Europe could not digest the sugars in milk 8000 years ago, according to a poster. They also noted an interesting twist: The first farmers also couldn’t digest milk. The farmers who came from the Near East about 7800 years ago and the Yamnaya pastoralists who came from the steppes 4800 years ago lacked the version of the LCT gene that allows adults to digest sugars in milk. It wasn’t until about 4300 years ago that lactose tolerance swept through Europe.

When it comes to skin color, the team found a patchwork of evolution in different places, and three separate genes that produce light skin, telling a complex story for how European’s skin evolved to be much lighter during the past 8000 years. The modern humans who came out of Africa to originally settle Europe about 40,000 years are presumed to have had dark skin, which is advantageous in sunny latitudes. And the new data confirm that about 8500 years ago, early hunter-gatherers in Spain, Luxembourg, and Hungary also had darker skin: They lacked versions of two genes—SLC24A5 and SLC45A2—that lead to depigmentation and, therefore, pale skin in Europeans today.

But in the far north—where low light levels would favor pale skin—the team found a different picture in hunter-gatherers: Seven people from the 7700-year-old Motala archaeological site in southern Sweden had both light skin gene variants, SLC24A5 and SLC45A2. They also had a third gene, HERC2/OCA2, which causes blue eyes and may also contribute to light skin and blond hair. Thus ancient hunter-gatherers of the far north were already pale and blue-eyed, but those of central and southern Europe had darker skin.

Then, the first farmers from the Near East arrived in Europe; they carried both genes for light skin. As they interbred with the indigenous hunter-gatherers, one of their light-skin genes swept through Europe, so that central and southern Europeans also began to have lighter skin. The other gene variant, SLC45A2, was at low levels until about 5800 years ago when it swept up to high frequency."


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015...ved-white-skin

[Matty74]

I think you're a little confused as to the composition of most Scandinavians and their origins.

[Maintenance]

[Token]

Y-DNA R was never Mongoloid.

Mal'ta-Buret was 75% West Eurasian, 25% East Asian. Soviet anthropologists exaggerated the Mongoloid features of his fragmentary skull.

The Mongoloid phenotype did not even exist when R mutated from P*. Amerindians are also not fully anatomically Mongoloid, but also partially Caucasoid despite being 70% East Eurasian autosomally.

The original Y-DNA R and P people would have looked similar to Skhul IV -- 90,000 year old out-of-Africa Caucasoid from Palestine:





Earnest Hooton said Amerindians had elements of "Iranian plateau Caucasoid".

Tianyuan man, the earliest East Asian genome ,was K2b* and we recently got a basal P* Andamanese sample which is directly ancestral Yana P1. This makes perfect sense, as P1 Yana RHS had 1/4 Tianyuan-like admixture and so did MA-1 and Afontova Gora, direct descendants of these people. MA-1 had CHG admixture, so Iranian farmer-like Caucasoid admixture in Amerindians is to be expected. Skhul IV is too old to be even remotely relevant to the P and R question, go read a little bit about phylogeny.

From Mayar et al 2018:
"The historical Andaman Islander Y chromosome is, to our knowledge, the first
occurrence of basal haplogroup P*. Fig. S9 conveys the basic structure of haplogroup
K-M9, one of the largest patrilineages of mankind, of whom the majority of Y
chromosomes from Europe, East Asia, Oceania and Americas descend from, and with
four basal lineages highlighted, three one of them being identified elsewhere (141, 152,
153) and the historical Andaman Islander (P*). Extensive Y chromosome calls for all
relevant positions listed on ref. (154) and ISOGG] can be found on Table S9, allowing
us to definitely place or re-place 91 SNPs of doubtful phylogenetic position downstream
of K2-M256, and to create a comprehensive list of all SNPs defining the deepest
branches of K-M9 haplogroup (16 new) (Table S11). Most of those variants now
properly define haplogroup P-P295 and P1-M45, which is of global interest for Y
chromosome variation as those can be used to understand the ancestral state in the
reference Y sequence itself, which falls downstream of P (haplogroup R1)."

P and R people were originally Australoid.

[Token]

"East Asian" does not mean Mongoloid.

I couldn't care less about what it means to be Mongoloid. Tianyuan was biologically a East Eurasian individual closely related to modern-day East Asians, take your own conclusions from here.

Except it isn't there and Iranian plataeu Caucasoid isn't CHG. Amerindians are ANE/EHG + modern East Asian.

Except it is there and CHG was closely related to Iranian plateau farmers. The West Eurasian element in Amerindians is majorly Yana-related though. Since we don't have complete skulls from these people, the best palpable example would be EHG.

Fitting Yana and Mal’ta in an extended admixture graph including
other EWE individuals reveals an increase in complexity of the ANS lineage over time due to
differentiation and admixture with other lineages, with evidence for low levels of early
Caucasus hunter-gatherer (CHG)–related ancestry in Mal’ta, as well as Western hunter gatherer (WHG) and CHG–related ancestry in the individual from Karelia, commonly
referred to as “Eastern hunter-gatherer” (EHG)

No he isn't, he's a fossil of the first wave out of Africa. He wasn't P or R but he's an example of one of the first racial types to leave Africa and has several of the Caucasoid like features found in Ameeindians AND melanesians.

Nothing West Eurasian about Melanesians and Skhul IV wasn't West Eurasian. East and West Eurasians split ca 45kya, the fact that the fossil remotely resembles Caucasoid skulls is a pure coincidence.

Really? A few pages back you said R was originally Mongolod. Now you're saying Australoid, yet Australoid is also described as a primitive Caucasoid by anthropologists such as Ashley Montagu. And the Skhul IV specimen was described as perfectly Caucasoid by Keith and McGowan in "The Stone Age of Mount Carmel". Many living P and basal R carriers in southeast Asia are not even Australoid, but Caucasoid. P and R were Caucasoid just like the original ancestors of Amerindians were before they mixed with neomongoloids.

Australoids are part of the eastern clade - long lost bros of Mongoloids. Anthropologists were wrong in many things and this is one of them, Onge-related people are closest related to East Asians and this is why we broadly refer to them as East Eurasians. Basal P was originally East Eurasian, the craniological consequences of this fact has no importance.