R1b-P312 subclades in Ireland

[Peterski]

This was posted on Anthrogenica by one user but he didn't say what the sample size was for each region (I suppose for Ireland West the sample size was small because it is weird that 100% of the sample was R1b-P312). The total sample size for all five regions is supposedly about 250:

Ireland South (total 75,1% R1b-P312):

R1b-L21>M222 - 4,2%
R1b-L21(xM222) - 54,2%
R1b-DF27/19/99 - 12,5%
R1b-U152 - 4,2%

Ireland South-West (total 68,1% R1b-P312):

R1b-L21>M222 - 4,5%
R1b-L21(xM222) - 40,9%
R1b-DF27/19/99 - 22,7%
R1b-U152 - 0,0%

Ireland North (total 61,9% R1b-P312):

R1b-L21>M222 - 14,3%
R1b-L21(xM222) - 33,3%
R1b-DF27/19/99 - 14,3%
R1b-U152 - 0,0%

Ireland East (total 75,1% R1b-P312):

R1b-L21>M222 - 25,0%
R1b-L21(xM222) - 31,3%
R1b-DF27/19/99 - 18,8%
R1b-U152 - 0,0%

Ireland West (total 100,0% R1b-P312):

R1b-L21>M222 - 43,8%
R1b-L21(xM222) - 50,0%
R1b-DF27/19/99 - 0,0%
R1b-U152 - 6,3%

^^^
What I posted as DF27/19/99 was originally labeled as P312*, but the vast majority of it must be DF27, and the rest pretty much DF19 and DF99.

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Original post from Anthrogenica:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post571798

"I have a spreadsheet from a study, I don't remember which study as I only saved the spreadsheet. But this spreadsheet used their own findings as well as previous findings and they happen to have Ireland. They only list P312*/S116*, M529(xM222), M222, and U152. I would imagine that because its Ireland, most, if not all of the P312* are probably DF27 based on what we now know about DF19, DF99 and L238, and the three other small P312 subclades. There is the O'Dwyer/Ryan cluster under DF27>ZZ12. There is also a O'Niell cluster which is separate under DF27>ZZ12. Then there is the DF27>DF17 cluster which has several unrelated families with Gaelic Surnames. Mulvihill and Ryan have not shared a common ancestor with Durkin, Meehan, and Connell since 143B.C, according to Ytree. This DF17 cluster is Southwest Ireland, which according to these three studies, has the highest amount of P312*.

P312* L21(M222) M222 U152

Ireland East: 0.188 0.313 0.25 0
Ireland North: 0.143 0.333 0.143 0
Ireland South: 0.125 0.542 0.042 0.042
Ireland Southwest: 0.227 0.409 0.045 0
Ireland West: 0 0.5 0.438 0.063

The reference for these figures are 2,3,4 which are:

2- Myres NM, Ekins JE, Lin AA, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Woodward SR, Underhill PA: Y-chromosome short tandem repeat DYS458.2 non-consensus alleles occur independently in both binary haplogroups J1-M267 and R1b3-M405. Croat Med J 2007; 48: 450-459.
3- Underhill PA, Myres NM, Rootsi S et al: Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a. Eur J Hum Genet 2009.
4- Underhill PA, Myres NM, Rootsi S et al: New phylogenetic relationships for Y-chromosome haplogroup I: Reappraising its phylogeography and prehistory; in: P. Mellars KB, O. Bar-Yosef & C. Stringer (ed): Rethinking the Human Revolution. Cambridge: McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, 2007, pp 33-42."

[Peterski]

I'm surprised how much of "Iberian" R1b-DF27 there is in Ireland, if this data is correct. On the other hand R1b-U152 is lower than expected.

[PaleoEuropean]

I'm surprised how much of "Iberian" R1b-DF27 there is in Ireland, if this data is correct. On the other hand R1b-U152 is lower than expected.

I don't want Grace to beat me up so I won't comment

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm surprised how much of "Iberian" R1b-DF27 there is in Ireland, if this data is correct. On the other hand R1b-U152 is lower than expected.

Yes very high and I never seen such high figures for DF27 in Ireland but calling it "Iberian" is like saying L21 is "Irish". We know that both those subclades came in with Bell Beaker and while DF27 is highest in Iberia and L21 is highest in Ireland they aren't exclusive to both those areas. I'm hoping that the paper that Cassidy wrote will have more info on ydna when it comes out next year. It would be more helpful to know what subclades they are. France is the place that we need to have more information and studies from. Unfortunately that doesn't look it is going to happen any time soon.

Have you done any testing on your ydna to find it a subclade?

[CordedWhelp]

So, no Scottish deep paternal origins for you then? Think perhaps you might have a little Scottish autosomal admixture still? Or not enough info?

[Peterski]

So, no Scottish deep paternal origins for you then?

Have you done any testing on your ydna to find it a subclade?

Yes I have done Big Y. My closest Y-DNA match is Mexican, so it doesn't tell anything. He is closer than any of my European matches.

My more distant matches are both Spanish and British-Irish. There is also one Czech guy who is part of roughly the same subclade.

There are also Lithuanians who are part of the same subclade (but more distant matches than Mexican, Spanish and British matches).

Also, these Lithuanians have surnames which indicate likely Polish origin (Poles have been a huge minority in Lithuania for centuries).

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I have many private variants / novel SNPs, which indicates that the split between my branch and this Mexican's branch was long ago.

But probably not in Paleo-Amerindian times.