BRITONS WUZ TROJANS

[PaleoEuropean]

No there is absolutely no truth in it. It was monks from the medieval ages and it was invented. If you look at a dna cluster map look where the Irish cluster. Do you think R1b-L21 is from Egypt? There have been quite a few studies on the Irish especially recently. They are just northwestern Europeans and have most likely not changed much since those Bell Beakers came in the Bronze Age. While exotic origins might appeal there no place for it when discussing genetics. Even before genetic studies were published it was fairly obvious who the Irish share most with just by looking at a dna cluster map. This was obvious back in 2008 with the Novembre map and while studies have come out they all confirm that the Irish are just like their neighbours.

This is the Novembre plot and they still use it today in lectures and genetic studies because nothing has really changed and populations still cluster in the same place.

The only error on this was Slovak who is obviously Jewish so not sure what happened there? I sure there is a explanation somewhere about it but I can't be bothered looking at the minute.



I've always said to people that if you just look at a genetic plot it can tell you a lot already without even reading a study. I do read the studies though because this is what I'm interested in.

But what era are these reference populations coming from? Modern Admixtures wouldn't be the same as ancient. Not disagreeing, but interested to know who was tested.

[Senpai]

I mean, I was being sarcastic, but there is some truth to it, highly mythologized truth but truth non the less, like the fact that they came to Ireland from Iberia, and were originally from Scythia (aka the indo-european homeland), shows you how well ancient people can remember such things, just like the illiad, and the trojan war that actually happened (but without gods and demigods) about 500 years before it was written down...

Our ancestors were obsessed with genealogy and history. Which is why until the 1800-1900s, all that this man says was viewed as unequivocally factual. Obviously our captors got ahold of history and began mythologizing everything they possibly could to demoralize and integrate populations. If anything, DNA is beginning to show people this.


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[TheOldNorth]

But what era are these reference populations coming from? Modern Admixtures wouldn't be the same as ancient. Not disagreeing, but interested to know who was tested.

ancient celtic iberians where actually nothing like modern spaniards, who have heavy roman, suebian, visigoth, and moorish admixture

[TheOldNorth]

No there is absolutely no truth in it. It was monks from the medieval ages and it was invented. If you look at a dna cluster map look where the Irish cluster. Do you think R1b-L21 is from Egypt? There have been quite a few studies on the Irish especially recently. They are just northwestern Europeans and have most likely not changed much since those Bell Beakers came in the Bronze Age. While exotic origins might appeal there no place for it when discussing genetics. Even before genetic studies were published it was fairly obvious who the Irish share most with just by looking at a dna cluster map. This was obvious back in 2008 with the Novembre map and while studies have come out they all confirm that the Irish are just like their neighbours.

This is the Novembre plot and they still use it today in lectures and genetic studies because nothing has really changed and populations still cluster in the same place.

The only error on this was Slovak who is obviously Jewish so not sure what happened there? I sure there is a explanation somewhere about it but I can't be bothered looking at the minute.



I've always said to people that if you just look at a genetic plot it can tell you a lot already without even reading a study. I do read the studies though because this is what I'm interested in.

then how is it that some have stated that the irish are gentically linked to ancient iberian dna, and the indo europeans came from scythia to begin with. No I don't think they're descended directly from an egyptian princess, that was just to give them a connection to the classical world. The irish however knew they came from the pontic-caspian step before anyone else had figured it out by at least a thousand years

[Creoda]

ancient celtic iberians where actually nothing like modern spaniards, who have heavy roman, suebian, visigoth, and moorish admixture

They were only slightly more Northern shifted, more like Southern French. Pretty similar to modern Spaniards.

[Creoda]

Not that I endorse this view but this is a book I enjoyed when I was younger, OP might find it intriguing.

[Creoda]

then how is it that some have stated that the irish are gentically linked to ancient iberian dna, and the indo europeans came from scythia to begin with. No I don't think they're descended directly from an egyptian princess, that was just to give them a connection to the classical world. The irish however knew they came from the pontic-caspian step before anyone else had figured it out by at least a thousand years

They are genetically linked to prehistorical Iberian Neolithic DNA that came in 4000 BC, but that only makes up around 5% of Irish ancestry, so what? All Northern Europeans have such Neolithic ancestry. It's nothing Irish medieval monks would know about, their folklore, history, traditions etc were all totally Indo-European for thousands of years.

[Grace O'Malley]

But what era are these reference populations coming from? Modern Admixtures wouldn't be the same as ancient. Not disagreeing, but interested to know who was tested.

There are ancient genomes now that you can compare populations to. Ancient genomes like Ballynahatty (from Co Down) doesn't cluster with present day Irish people and you can do models using G25 looking at what ancient populations have contributed to modern ones. Spain has always had a more complicated genetic history than the Irish even in the neolithic.

Anyway using G25 Irish favour GAC over Iberian Neolithic or Irish Neolithic (i.e. Ballynahatty). Creoda is good at this sort of stuff. I wouldn't even know what to use on Spanish people as they have a more complicated mixture.

"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 2.8743,
"Yamnaya_RUS_Samara": 50.83,
"POL_Globular_Amphora": 49.17,
"IRL_MN": 0,

Using Spanish Neolithic

"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 2.8645,
"Yamnaya_RUS_Samara": 50.83,
"POL_Globular_Amphora": 49.17,
"Iberia_MN": 0,

So modern Irish favour GAC for farmer ancestry.