The genetic diversity of Northern Italy

[savvas]

Ok, so it's true, savvas you are not a north Italian.

Mauro Corona is of recent Sardinian descent. He is not fully northern Italian as it's well known in Italy.

Ieri la solidarietà di Mauro Corona, il grande scrittore trentino, che rivendica con orgoglio le sue antiche origini sarde, di quegli antenati giunti dall’Isola per fare i pastori nelle Alpi.

https://sardegna.admaioramedia.it/un...l-giardiniere/

Corona is the most common surname in Erto. His mother's surname, Filippin, is the second most common surname in Erto. And Ertani plot halfway between Sardinians and Basques, so it looks like the whole community shares this Sardinian admixture. When did this immigration from Sardinia happen? There's no mention of that in the study, nor on Wiki.

[dududud]

Ok, so it's true, savvas you are not a north Italian.

Mauro Corona is of recent Sardinian descent. He is not fully northern Italian as it's well known in Italy.

Ieri la solidarietà di Mauro Corona, il grande scrittore trentino, che rivendica con orgoglio le sue antiche origini sarde, di quegli antenati giunti dall’Isola per fare i pastori nelle Alpi.

https://sardegna.admaioramedia.it/un...l-giardiniere/

Looks like a Moorish, not a real Sardo. Neither a North Italians.

[MinervaItalica]

Aostans speak a French-like language as native language. You are also using people belonging to ethnic minorities in the north of Italy. Who's next? The German-speaking South Tyroleans and are you going to pretend that they are North Italian?

Very few Italians in Aosta Valley speak French, they perhaps speak Franco Provencal. Also it seems wrong to say that the majority of "Aostans" speak FP as native.

Native languages:

italiano: 71,50%
francoprovenzale: 16,20%
francese: 0,99%

"La stragrande maggioranza degli intervistati ha indicato l'italiano come lingua materna. Intervistato sulle proprie conoscenze linguistiche, il 96,01% ha dichiarato di conoscere l'italiano, il 75,41% di conoscere il francese, il 55,77% il patois valdostano e il 50,53% le tre lingue."

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valle_...gue_e_dialetti

This means italians are pretty unstable and not represent a single ethnic group, but a lot of diverse european groups under italian flag and italian language.

Opposed to Italy, iberians are extremely homogeneous genetically, but culturally very unstable with a lot of political movements to promote confusion between them and brake the Peninsula.

Ethnicities are not based upon genetics in this world but are based on culture. Italians are a single ethnic group plus foreigner minorities.

[Gospon.Fulir]

Yeah , i thought before there is only difference between south and north but seems that north italians are alao diference between each other..
Venetians and especially Friulans looks like Baltic and early slavic admixtured , and they score other north italians on 10 or more distance according to k13 eurogenes which is veey much distance ...

The western part of north italy seems to be french /north spanish shifted ...

[Gospon.Fulir]

Yeah , i thought before there is only difference between south and north but seems that north italians are also diference between each other..
Venetians and especially Friulans looks like Baltic and early slavic admixtured , and their nearest distance is 10 according to k13 eurogenes which is veey much distance ...

The western part of north italy seems to be french /north spanish shifted ...

And sorry guys for 2 same posts , first time i using this and still searching for delete option ��

[Adamastor]

Italians are a single ethnic group plus foreigner minorities.

More like a nationality, no? My great-great-grandfather from Trento had minimal cultural differences with my great-great-grandmother from German-speaking South Tyrol. And my great-grandfather (their son) had minimal differences with my great-grandmother from Friuli. Just to give an example.

Do you think these people are the same ethnicity as Calabrians or even Umbrians and Tuscans? lol

[guezet]

And? Gallo-Italic languages are closer to French than to Tuscan... All of ''Trentino'' (the modern name for Italian Tyrol) was once Rhaeto-Romance speaking like Friuli...
There's no way to say Aostans are not Northern Italians only because you don't want them to be. ''Northern Italian'' isn't a single ethnicity.

Do these linguistic proximities really mean something? I have great doubts that a French can better understand the Gallo-Italic dialects than Italian/Tuscan. Once I heard an old man speak Gallo-Italic and I didn't understand anything.

Well, then most parts of Northern Italy outside of Po Valley are more or less 'borderline'. That's exactly what I'm saying anyway, there's no single 'North Italian' ethnicity and genetic profile when you have so many exceptions to the so called 'average'.

Most people from Trento were probably Ladin-speaking some centuries ago, before they were 'venetianized' and 'lombardized'. There's a 'Rhaeto-Romance' similarity between Friulans and Tyroleans from Italy (''Trentino''). Both are closer to other Alpine populations in Austria, Switzerland and France than to Tuscans, it should be obvious.

Even the Italian Alps seem closer to the rest of Italy than to central Europe.

[guezet]

More like a nationality, no? My great-great-grandfather from Trento had minimal cultural differences with my great-great-grandmother from German-speaking South Tyrol. And my great-grandfather (their son) had minimal differences with my great-grandmother from Friuli. Just to give an example.

What is really funny is a South American like you with only a great-great-grandfather of Italian origin trying to explain to an Italian what Italians are.

[MinervaItalica]

More like a nationality, no?

Do you think these people are the same ethnicity as Calabrians or even Umbrians? lol

Not really. French are more of a nationality.

Italians indentify with a common culture, language, history, religion, food etc...

It's not that "Umbrians" for example are different from other Italians, they have Italian common culture plus their minimal regional differences like many other nations in Europe. Regions from North Germany have their own regional culture while Southern Germany regions have their own, same for France and other medium/large countries in Europe.

German minority from North Italy are a different story. They are Italians by nationality not ethnically ofc (unless they are italianized since generations).

[Adamastor]

Do these linguistic proximities really mean something? I have great doubts that a French can better understand the Gallo-Italic dialects than Italian/Tuscan. Once I heard an old man speak Gallo-Italic and I didn't understand anything.





Even the Italian Alps seem closer to the rest of Italy than to central Europe.

This is an old PCA that is constantly spammed here too, but seems to be atypical and lacking samples. The PCA I shared is much more complete and closer to reality.


About languages, I don't know if an isolated individual being able to understand something or not should be the measure. I mean, French itself is heavily different from native Southern French languages, let alone from Gallo-Italic languages.