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Thread: How the support for Welsh independence became mainstream

  1. #21
    Johannes factotum
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    Never going to happen, 25% of the population of Wales is English just to start with. That's English-born, there are historically ethnically English towns all over the place, even in the heartlands (particularly the coast in Gwynedd and Mon) and places like Monmouthshire which probably wouldn't/haven't shown any interest in being part of an independent Wales.

    Just a hobby for some southerners, and the only real votes Y Plaid gets are places Welsh is spoken as a first language, in the North and West. My parents' MP is Plaid. But they have like, 10% of the vote, 10% of the MPs, no more than 20% of the Senedd. The split for independence - union is like 15-85. And there's a very low 'cap' to the extent to which they're electable. Bear in mind only 20% of the country speaks Welsh, 10% as a first language. Wales also doesn't have as recent a history of independence as Scotland does, and was never a united polity outside of English control.

    Significant portions of Wales are directly dependent on the British government for their economic existence, particularly thinking of the parts of Mon and Powys that have large military presences. Either way Wales isn't really viable as an independent nation in terms of economy, hasn't been since the mines closed, and if Tata Steel closed its plant, there'd be like six jobs there. It would be tourism and forestry. That's it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    Never going to happen, 25% of the population of Wales is English just to start with. That's English-born, there are historically ethnically English towns all over the place, even in the heartlands (particularly the coast in Gwynedd and Mon) and places like Monmouthshire which probably wouldn't/haven't shown any interest in being part of an independent Wales.

    Just a hobby for some southerners, and the only real votes Y Plaid gets are places Welsh is spoken as a first language, in the North and West. My parents' MP is Plaid. But they have like, 10% of the vote, 10% of the MPs, no more than 20% of the Senedd. The split for independence - union is like 15-85. And there's a very low 'cap' to the extent to which they're electable. Bear in mind only 20% of the country speaks Welsh, 10% as a first language. Wales also doesn't have as recent a history of independence as Scotland does, and was never a united polity outside of English control.

    Significant portions of Wales are directly dependent on the British government for their economic existence, particularly thinking of the parts of Mon and Powys that have large military presences. Either way Wales isn't really viable as an independent nation in terms of economy, hasn't been since the mines closed, and if Tata Steel closed its plant, there'd be like six jobs there. It would be tourism and forestry. That's it.
    is TATA Steel that much important in Wales ?

  3. #23
    Johannes factotum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viçwamitra View Post
    is TATA Steel that much important in Wales ?
    I'm exaggerating, but not that much. Massive for Port Talbot, which is otherwise a dump. I used to go there all the time though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    I'm exaggerating, but not that much. Massive for Port Talbot, which is otherwise a dump. I used to go there all the time though.
    i see. i have heard rumors that TATA steel is closing down plants in UK as they are not profitable anymore, cheap steel imports from China are also destroying Indian local Steel markers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    I'm exaggerating, but not that much. Massive for Port Talbot, which is otherwise a dump. I used to go there all the time though.
    i see. i have heard rumors that TATA steel is closing down plants in UK as they are not profitable anymore, cheap steel imports from China are also destroying Indian local Steel markers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viçwamitra View Post
    i see. i have heard rumors that TATA steel is closing down plants in UK as they are not profitable anymore, cheap steel imports from China are also destroying Indian local Steel markers.
    Those would be rumours that will never materialise. The reason for that is very simple: politics. Closing down plants is a bad idea. Particularly if the business friendly party is in control and you have elections coming up. Imagine closing down a couple of plants, you lose a couple of thousand jobs and with more companies being involved in the background, this could mean tens of thousands of jobs. That means Labour winning the elections. And what would Labour do against TATA (because of a public outcry) as TATA needs access to the European market ? They would restart the plants under a new owner (such plants are usually considered strategic assets !) and make sure that TATA no longer has access to the British market by launching all sorts of safety inquiries and pollution inquiries (you know: those who should have been carried under successive governments but which didn't take place because of all sorts of corruption until they can be used as a political tool) that could drag on for years (and with that, it would leave the Netherlands for them as the other entry point and if TATA were to repeat the same process here - then things could get really difficult for them).

    This whole free single market stuff goes for company that have access to Europe or are European. Without the access, TATA is going belly up as Europe happens to be one of its biggest markets.



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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    Those would be rumours that will never materialise. The reason for that is very simple: politics. Closing down plants is a bad idea. Particularly if the business friendly party is in control and you have elections coming up. Imagine closing down a couple of plants, you lose a couple of thousand jobs and with more companies being involved in the background, this could mean tens of thousands of jobs. That means Labour winning the elections. And what would Labour do against TATA (because of a public outcry) as TATA needs access to the European market ? They would restart the plants under a new owner (such plants are usually considered strategic assets !) and make sure that TATA no longer has access to the British market by launching all sorts of safety inquiries and pollution inquiries (you know: those who should have been carried under successive governments but which didn't take place because of all sorts of corruption until they can be used as a political tool) that could drag on for years (and with that, it would leave the Netherlands for them as the other entry point and if TATA were to repeat the same process here - then things could get really difficult for them).

    This whole free single market stuff goes for company that have access to Europe or are European. Without the access, TATA is going belly up as Europe happens to be one of its biggest markets.
    that explains. tata is going under new management of mistry family as last TATA family member is unmarried and without any heir. lets see how this new family runs this company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viçwamitra View Post
    that explains. tata is going under new management of mistry family as last TATA family member is unmarried and without any heir. lets see how this new family runs this company.
    Let's hope that, for the company's sake, this new family aren't a complete bunch of idiots that will run the company into the ground.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    Let's hope that, for the company's sake, this new family aren't a complete bunch of idiots that will run the company into the ground.
    unfortunately the company is not doing very well for over a year now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viçwamitra View Post
    unfortunately the company is not doing very well for over a year now.
    Then staring down a barrel contemplating suicide is about the last thing they need.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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