Should European countries exit NATO?

[BeerBaron]

LOL. Jefferson's pipsqueak navy got us bullied for years by both Britain and France during the Napoleonic Wars. His isolationist fantasies are the last to be citing for proper geostrategy.

i agree, i just dislike hearing quotes from him talking about "trade with all alliances with none" when no one mentions any of this along with it

[poiuytrewq0987]

The moral of the story is that peace is a delusion as long as nation states exist

We already have the European Union, there is no need for NATO.

[Austin]

Well, let's all hail the Fourth Reich of sodomy, Turkish sex clubs, and national chauvinists who think saving Europe means sticking it to the French, Czechs, Poles, and any others needing got even with.

This is what I mean though. Germany and all of West Europe are sick with cultural Marxism these days. They aren't going to come out of it until the U.S. leaves and Russia starts openly corrupting East Europe and West Europe wakes up from its degeneracy and becomes itself again. Though yes I agree, West Europe in its current form is the equivalent to a delusional drunk asleep in the bathroom whom the bar owner left there as he locked up. You listen to some of these West European social leftists and you just want to vomit out of pure disgust at their sheer delusion. Yet NATO enables this societal decay of West Europe. NATO enables West Europe to play human rights court and pretend that Russia is going to mentally pacify itself any day now in respect to its regional interests.

[BeerBaron]

We already have the European Union, there is no need for NATO.

The eu's ability to conduct military operations without the US is pathetic at best. the eu can't even agree to use its military together in libya and has to run to nato countries for support until they convince the US to intervene.

[Joe McCarthy]

The NATO was formed to unify America's allies against the Soviet Union. When the Soviet Union ended, the NATO didn't end and continues to absorb former Warsaw Pact states. What kind of message do you think the NATO is sending Russia, genius?

The NATO is inherently hostile against Russia and it is only natural for Russia to respond by playing power politics.

The factor you're leaving out is that these ex-Warsaw Pact countries themselves wanted to join NATO because they don't trust a country like Russia. And who can blame them?

I mean, Russia enslaves Europe for decades, goes broke and implodes, then leaves. Its former slaves want some security against future oppression, and your solution is to blame the West and then rationalize Russia responding by arming China and Third World thugs. Niiiice.

[Birka]

LOL. Jefferson's pipsqueak navy got us bullied for years by both Britain and France during the Napoleonic Wars. His isolationist fantasies are the last to be citing for proper geostrategy.

When the national debt is $61 TRILLION, the last thing to be thinking about is a geostrategy. When Jefferson sent the Marines to take out the Barbary Pirates, what alliances did he make? Did he waste the US budget rebuilding foreign countries?

[Joe McCarthy]

This is what I mean though. Germany and all of West Europe are sick with cultural Marxism these days. They aren't going to come out of it until the U.S. leaves and Russia starts openly corrupting East Europe and West Europe wakes up from its degeneracy and becomes itself again. Though yes I agree, West Europe in its current form is the equivalent to a delusional drunk asleep in the bathroom whom the bar owner left there as he locked up. You listen to some of these West European social leftists and you just want to vomit out of pure disgust at their sheer delusion. Yet NATO enables this societal decay of West Europe. NATO enables West Europe to play human rights court and pretend that Russia is going to mentally pacify itself any day now in respect to its regional interests.

Why is NATO preventing Europeans from closing their borders or having kids? European birthrates were good for much of NATO's existence. Does Germany need to re-arm and start trying to conquer Europe for Europe to survive? Actually, that's sorta why it's in trouble - Germany's warlike ambitions.

[Groenewolf]

Europe can increase its defense expenditures without pulling out of NATO. We're dealing with a hypothetical situation with Estonia - but if the US leaves they'll have less protection than they do now for sure.

That is indeed possible. And it certainly needed, because being depended on an other nation for your defense is not good thing. Alto there is still the possibility for military alliances between some European countries and the USA without NATO.

[Joe McCarthy]

That is indeed possible. And it certainly needed, because being depended on an other nation for your defense is not good thing. Alto there is still the possibility for military alliances between some European countries and the USA without NATO.

Gates has suggested Europe up its defense budget. Regardless though, in any such defense arrangement various countries will be dependent on others. The Netherlands for example could be increasingly dependent on Germany. I know you don't mind that idea but it worries me a bit. Collective defense or the good will of large states is all that can protect small countries.

[Tel Errant]

Of course we should.