View Poll Results: Should European countries exit NATO?

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  • Yes

    23 56.10%
  • No

    14 34.15%
  • Undecided

    4 9.76%
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Thread: Should European countries exit NATO?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    I figured this would be a fun poll. Predictable, but fun.
    Lol, I bet you can't wait for Civis to see this.

    Well I think it should be disbanded and replaced with a Europe-only military alliance, no Turkey, no America or Canada - just Europe.

    It would bring in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus too, along with most current European NATO members.
    It's purpose would be to protect Europe, maintain the status quo (i.e. no new Third Reich or French First Empire), peace keep in troubled regions and to protect the individual countries and continent from external aggression (that includes China, Russia itself, America or the Arabs).

    Although it would be a military alliance it would have no bases on foreign territory (within Europe), so no Russian bases in Britain or Estonia, no British bases in Germany for example. Europe isn't that big that a large proportion of it's military couldn't mobilise to meet an attacker so there is no need for foreign military bases.
    The purpose of it would be really to just keep the peace, it'd be called something like the European Defence Alliance, Defence being the key word - not offence like NATO.

    The nuclear powers within the organisation would be Russia, France and Britain and these nations would also posses aircraft carriers (Britain once it get's it's new ones in around five years time).
    Britain would relaunch it's own nuclear weapons programme which it scrapped (and gave the technology to the US), since America probably wouldn't be too thrilled about being excluded from the organisation and including Russia.

    The organisation would work with America and the EU but wouldn't be dominated by either, Russia (in regards to America) and Britain (in regards to the EU) would make sure of that I'm sure.

    Russia, the UK and France would be the dominant players in the organisation, Germany and Ukraine would probably be important too.
    In regards to overseas territories such as Diego Garcia and Acension, the American leases would be allowed to lapse and then Britain would have to decide whether to allow America to renew them or not. I'd favour renewal with strings attached - a treaty backing Britain's claim to the Falklands.
    If my memory serves me correctly they've got until 2015 in Diego Garcia until the lease needs renewing.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    You would rather have the decadent dominance of the West in your affairs? Either way you're screwed. Estonia is finished whether it's under Russia's thumb of the West's.

    Don't worry though.

    We're sinking with you.
    Life in this Western country is currently very good, it's way better than suffering under direct genocide.



    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    Essentially, you've replaced USSR for USA. The USSR is not here today so all this Russophobia by you is rather pointless. Russia today is not going to seek conquest of Estonia. Just because a controller lives farther away, doesn't mean they are the better choice.
    You discredited your own post by using ad hominems.

    P.S You're a total idiot. Basically, the USSR killed 20% of Estonia's population and colonized our country with Eastern-Europeans. It's like comparing a Jew's life in Nazi Germany with a Jew's life in 2011 Germany and/or Israel.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Life in this Western country is currently very good, it's way better than suffering under direct genocide.





    You discredited your own post by using ad hominems.

    P.S You're a total idiot. Basically, the USSR killed 20% of Estonia's population and colonized our country with Eastern-Europeans. It's like comparing a Jew's life in Nazi Germany with a Jew's life in 2011 Germany and/or Israel.
    What ad-hominem? My comment about you being a Russophobe? It can't be an ad-hominem when it's a fact, you are a Russophobe. Oh, about that little genocide thingy? That was carried out by the USSR, not Russia. It's just like telling Federal Germany that they are evil for killing 6 million Jews...

    Actually, just wait until African immigrants start hearing about oh-so-prosperous Estonia and start flooding the country and you'll get your genocide.


  4. #14
    Veteran Member Murphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Life in this Western country is currently very good, it's way better than suffering under direct genocide.

    Tell that to millions of children butchered in the womb. You think we're not being killed off? We are. But make no mistake.. it is much subtler than the vulgar methods used by man in the past, but it is still happening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    What ad-hominem? My comment about you being a Russophobe? It can't be an ad-hominem when it's a fact, you are a Russophobe. Oh, about that little genocide thingy? That was carried out by the USSR, not Russia.
    I'm not a Russophobe. I'm as much of an Russophobe as a random Swede is a Somaliphobe. It's just dislike of immigrants.

    It's just like telling Federal Germany that they are evil for killing 6 million Jews...
    Contrary to Federal Germany, modern-day Russia is a direct descendant of the USSR, ran by people who were on high places in the USSR. If you made yourself familiar with some of Putin's remarks, then you would know what I am talking about.

    Actually, just wait until African immigrants start hearing about oh-so-prosperous Estonia and start flooding the country and you'll get your genocide.
    Estonia has strict immigration quotas. The only way for Africans to get to Estonia is to gain EU-citizenship in a different country and then come to Estonia as EU-citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Tell that to millions of children butchered in the womb. You think we're not being killed off? We are. But make no mistake.. it is much subtler than the vulgar methods used by man in the past, but it is still happening.
    You might be killed off, if you like to think so, but we aren't.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    You would rather have the decadent dominance of the West in your affairs? Either way you're screwed. Estonia is finished whether it's under Russia's thumb of the West's.

    Don't worry though.

    We're sinking with you.
    What does a military alliance have to do with decadence? Will the French import less immigrants next year if they pull out of NATO? Will they eat fewer Bigmacs? What pulling out will do is divide Western Civilization and thus embolden outsiders.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by celtabria View Post
    Lol, I bet you can't wait for Civis to see this.

    Well I think it should be disbanded and replaced with a Europe-only military alliance, no Turkey, no America or Canada - just Europe.

    It would bring in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus too, along with most current European NATO members.
    It's purpose would be to protect Europe, maintain the status quo (i.e. no new Third Reich or French First Empire), peace keep in troubled regions and to protect the individual countries and continent from external aggression (that includes China, Russia itself, America or the Arabs).

    Although it would be a military alliance it would have no bases on foreign territory (within Europe), so no Russian bases in Britain or Estonia, no British bases in Germany for example. Europe isn't that big that a large proportion of it's military couldn't mobilise to meet an attacker so there is no need for foreign military bases.
    The purpose of it would be really to just keep the peace, it'd be called something like the European Defence Alliance, Defence being the key word - not offence like NATO.

    The nuclear powers within the organisation would be Russia, France and Britain and these nations would also posses aircraft carriers (Britain once it get's it's new ones in around five years time).
    Britain would relaunch it's own nuclear weapons programme which it scrapped (and gave the technology to the US), since America probably wouldn't be too thrilled about being excluded from the organisation and including Russia.

    The organisation would work with America and the EU but wouldn't be dominated by either, Russia (in regards to America) and Britain (in regards to the EU) would make sure of that I'm sure.

    Russia, the UK and France would be the dominant players in the organisation, Germany and Ukraine would probably be important too.
    In regards to overseas territories such as Diego Garcia and Acension, the American leases would be allowed to lapse and then Britain would have to decide whether to allow America to renew them or not. I'd favour renewal with strings attached - a treaty backing Britain's claim to the Falklands.
    If my memory serves me correctly they've got until 2015 in Diego Garcia until the lease needs renewing.
    What would these European Alliance do in case of trouble inside the countries or between countries? Like, how would it react to an independence war in the Balkans (again),in Spain (separate Catalonia), in Italy, in the UK, etc? Would the Alliance ever interfere in these internal affairs, like NATO or the Quintuple Alliance did? How aout if some member became communist, a muslim theocracy or something like that?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker View Post
    What would these European Alliance do in case of trouble inside the countries or between countries? Like, how would it react to an independence war in the Balkans (again),in Spain (separate Catalonia), in Italy, in the UK, etc? Would the Alliance ever interfere in these internal affairs, like NATO or the Quintuple Alliance did? How aout if some member became communist, a muslim theocracy or something like that?
    What independence war? All Balkan countries are currently independent. I think you mean secessionism in which the American government supported. Naturally, the European Security Alliance should be against secessionism as per international law.


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    Originally Posted by celtabria
    It would bring in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus too, along with most current European NATO members.
    Basically what you'll be doing is trading in US influence for Russian and a newly empowered Germany. Does the history of the last century indicate that's a good idea?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    What does a military alliance have to do with decadence?
    The military alliance exists to protect the liberal-marxist governments of the west my friend. It isn't around to protect you and your family. You're nothing but a number to them. Your value is measured by your usefulness to the economy. You're not human to your government. You're simply a resource.
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