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Thread: Why are the Irish looked down upon so much by other West Europeans?

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    Default Why are the Irish looked down upon so much by other West Europeans?

    Throughout history, it seems the Irish were considered almost sub human. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They had their own Aristocracy. They were rather resilient people who got through adversity and poverty . The Irish that came to America were also hated. "Irish and dogs need not apply". Many people say an Irishman is a Nig turned inside out. The English have a great disdain for them, even though some Irish have Anglo heritage. Is it because the Irish have a lower general IQ and were more prone to dependence on the state than other countries? I know my mother talked about her Irish ancestors who were "lace curtain" rather than "Shanty" Irish. I guess there is a great class divide in Ireland as well. I was just curious why this this hatred of the Irish people continues even today.

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    I thought that historically, the discrimination was largely down to the fact that many Irish were staunch Catholics, whilst many Northwestern European nations were predominantly Protestant. I'd suspect this is probably the case with discrimination against the Irish who came to America as well. Personally, the Irish aren't hated and don't suffer discrimination in England today, if anything I'd suspect it's probably the other way around.

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    in my view it's because they 'were' very Catholic, much less so today

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    I have both Catholic and Protestant Irish ancestors. The Catholic ones were not poor, but they were more middling farmer types. The Protestant ones were part of the Aristocracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    Throughout history, it seems the Irish were considered almost sub human. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They had their own Aristocracy. They were rather resilient people who got through adversity and poverty . The Irish that came to America were also hated. "Irish and dogs need not apply". Many people say an Irishman is a Nig turned inside out. The English have a great disdain for them, even though some Irish have Anglo heritage. Is it because the Irish have a lower general IQ and were more prone to dependence on the state than other countries? I know my mother talked about her Irish ancestors who were "lace curtain" rather than "Shanty" Irish. I guess there is a great class divide in Ireland as well. I was just curious why this this hatred of the Irish people continues even today.
    Virtually every immigrant group was looked down on by native born citizens during that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KMack View Post
    Virtually every immigrant group was looked down on by native born citizens during that time.
    True, but the Irish were hated by the English . The Germans in America didn't have as hard a time as the Irish did.

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    The English and the Irish have a long history of hostility. Then there is the church/religion as mentioned before, the irish stereotypes I assume. Also usually every newcomer minority is disliked first by the major society imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    True, but the Irish were hated by the English . The Germans in America didn't have as hard a time as the Irish did.
    That was more of a Catholic thing, and it started long before over there.

    Exclusion of Catholics from most public offices (since 1607), Presbyterians were also barred from public office from 1707.
    Ban on intermarriage with Protestants; repealed 1778
    Presbyterian marriages were not legally recognised by the state
    Catholics barred from holding firearms or serving in the armed forces (rescinded by Militia Act of 1793)
    Bar from membership in either the Parliament of Ireland or the Parliament of England from 1652; rescinded 1662–1691; renewed 1691–1829, applying to the successive parliaments of England (to 1707), Great Britain (1707 to 1800), and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (1800 to 1829).
    Disenfranchising Act 1728, exclusion from voting until 1793;
    Exclusion from the legal professions and the judiciary; repealed (respectively) 1793 and 1829.
    Education Act 1695 – ban on foreign education; repealed 1782.
    Bar to Catholics and Protestant Dissenters entering Trinity College Dublin; repealed 1793.
    On a death by a Catholic, his legatee could benefit by conversion to the Church of Ireland;
    Popery Act – Catholic inheritances of land were to be equally subdivided between all an owner's sons with the exception that if the eldest son and heir converted to Protestantism that he would become the one and only tenant of estate and portions for other children not to exceed one third of the estate. This "Gavelkind" system had previously been abolished by 1600.
    Ban on converting from Protestantism to Roman Catholicism on pain of Praemunire: forfeiting all property estates and legacy to the monarch of the time and remaining in prison at the monarch's pleasure. In addition, forfeiting the monarch's protection. No injury however atrocious could have any action brought against it or any reparation for such.
    Ban on Catholics buying land under a lease of more than 31 years; repealed 1778.
    Ban on custody of orphans being granted to Catholics on pain of 500 pounds that was to be donated to the Blue Coat hospital in Dublin.
    Ban on Catholics inheriting Protestant land
    Prohibition on Catholics owning a horse valued at over 5 (to keep horses suitable for military activity out of the majority's hands)
    Roman Catholic lay priests had to register to preach under the Registration Act 1704, but seminary priests and Bishops were not able to do so until 1778. At least they could register; the English Popery Act 1698 awarded a bounty for arresting a priest.
    When allowed, new Catholic churches were to be built from wood, not stone, and away from main roads.
    'No person of the popish religion shall publicly or in private houses teach school, or instruct youth in learning within this realm' upon pain of twenty pounds fine and three months in prison for every such offence. Repealed in 1782.[8]
    Any and all rewards not paid by the crown for alerting authorities of offences to be levied upon the Catholic populace within parish and county.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KMack View Post
    That was more of a Catholic thing, and it started long before over there.

    Exclusion of Catholics from most public offices (since 1607), Presbyterians were also barred from public office from 1707.
    Ban on intermarriage with Protestants; repealed 1778
    Presbyterian marriages were not legally recognised by the state
    Catholics barred from holding firearms or serving in the armed forces (rescinded by Militia Act of 1793)
    Bar from membership in either the Parliament of Ireland or the Parliament of England from 1652; rescinded 1662–1691; renewed 1691–1829, applying to the successive parliaments of England (to 1707), Great Britain (1707 to 1800), and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (1800 to 1829).
    Disenfranchising Act 1728, exclusion from voting until 1793;
    Exclusion from the legal professions and the judiciary; repealed (respectively) 1793 and 1829.
    Education Act 1695 – ban on foreign education; repealed 1782.
    Bar to Catholics and Protestant Dissenters entering Trinity College Dublin; repealed 1793.
    On a death by a Catholic, his legatee could benefit by conversion to the Church of Ireland;
    Popery Act – Catholic inheritances of land were to be equally subdivided between all an owner's sons with the exception that if the eldest son and heir converted to Protestantism that he would become the one and only tenant of estate and portions for other children not to exceed one third of the estate. This "Gavelkind" system had previously been abolished by 1600.
    Ban on converting from Protestantism to Roman Catholicism on pain of Praemunire: forfeiting all property estates and legacy to the monarch of the time and remaining in prison at the monarch's pleasure. In addition, forfeiting the monarch's protection. No injury however atrocious could have any action brought against it or any reparation for such.
    Ban on Catholics buying land under a lease of more than 31 years; repealed 1778.
    Ban on custody of orphans being granted to Catholics on pain of 500 pounds that was to be donated to the Blue Coat hospital in Dublin.
    Ban on Catholics inheriting Protestant land
    Prohibition on Catholics owning a horse valued at over 5 (to keep horses suitable for military activity out of the majority's hands)
    Roman Catholic lay priests had to register to preach under the Registration Act 1704, but seminary priests and Bishops were not able to do so until 1778. At least they could register; the English Popery Act 1698 awarded a bounty for arresting a priest.
    When allowed, new Catholic churches were to be built from wood, not stone, and away from main roads.
    'No person of the popish religion shall publicly or in private houses teach school, or instruct youth in learning within this realm' upon pain of twenty pounds fine and three months in prison for every such offence. Repealed in 1782.[8]
    Any and all rewards not paid by the crown for alerting authorities of offences to be levied upon the Catholic populace within parish and county.

    So, it's mainly the Irish Catholics, but not so much Protestant Irish? The Protestants did seem to be the ones in power.

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