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  • Northern Europeans

    63 66.32%
  • Mediterranean non-Europeans

    32 33.68%
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Thread: Are Mediterraean Europeans culturally closer to Mediterranean non-Europeans or to Northern Europeans

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stotnik369 View Post
    Spaniards/Portuguese, especially northern, have a lot similarities with Celtic people.
    Compare modern and ancient populations?

    Have you seen this map? Because I observe that at the slightest opportunity it is revived to claim big differences between the north and the south of Spain, when the not significant differences are not N/S but West/East.



    It should also be taken into account that upon the arrival of the Almohads, half a million natives of southern Spain fled to the north, creating a super population in northern Spain.

    Half a million people for the time is a very high number.

    Spain is not the case with Italy, we are sorry to have disappointed you lol
    Last edited by Gallop; 07-16-2021 at 02:53 PM.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY7449/
    E-V22 - E-BY7449 - E-BY7566 - E-FT155550
    According to oral family tradition E-FT155550 comes from a deserter of Napoleon's troops (1808-1813) who stayed in Spain and changed his surname.

  2. #142
    Veteran Member renaissance12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenas View Post
    Venetokratía in Greek.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Venetocracy



    Ancient Rome was Italian not Greek. The roots of this civilization though goes back to ancient Greece and Magna Graecia. I go by the historical references stating Etruscans came from Asia Minor and Lesbos island of the Aegean and were Pelasgians, or at least the core and a big part of them.


    Etruscan civilization

    The latter gave way in the 7th century BC to a culture that was influenced by Ancient Greek culture, during the Archaic (Orientalizing period), and later the Classical period.

    Archaic Greece had a huge influence on their art and architecture, and Greek mythology was evidently very familiar to them.

    Origins

    The origins of the Etruscans are mostly lost in prehistory, although Greek historians as early as the 5th century BC repeatedly associated the Tyrrhenians (Turrhēnoi/Τυρρηνοί, Tursēnoi/Τυρσηνοί) with Pelasgians, which could both be broad descriptive terms. Strabo[20] and the Homeric Hymn to Dionysus[21] make mention of the Tyrrhenians as pirates.[22] Thucydides,[23] Herodotus[24] and Strabo[25] all denote Lemnos as settled by Pelasgians, whom Thucydides identifies as "belonging to the Tyrrhenians" (τὸ δὲ πλεῖστον Πελασγικόν, τῶν καὶ Λῆμνόν ποτε καὶ Ἀθήνας Τυρσηνῶν). Although both Strabo and Herodotus[26] agree that Tyrrhenus / Tyrsenos, son of Atys, king of Lydia, led the migration, Strabo[25] specifies that it was the Pelasgians of Lemnos and Imbros who followed Tyrrhenus to the Italian Peninsula. A link between Lemnos and the Tyrrhenians was further manifested by the discovery of the Lemnos Stele, whose inscriptions were written in a language which shows strong structural resemblances to the language of the Etruscans.[27] This has led to the suggestion of a "Tyrrhenian language group" comprising Etruscan, Lemnian, and the Raetic spoken in the Alps.

    According to another source a group of Greek traders from Euboea (Evvoia) went to Campania on 770 BC where they settled at Ischia and in Cumae and traded with local people. Over time, these Greeks were assimilated into these local people.[28]

    Hellanicus of Lesbos records a Pelasgian migration from Thessaly to the Italian peninsula, noting that "the Pelasgi made themselves masters of some of the lands belonging to the Umbri".[29]

    Etruscan League

    According to legend,[41] there was a period between 600 BC and 500 BC in which an alliance was formed among twelve Etruscan settlements, known today as the Etruscan League, Etruscan Federation, or Dodecapolis (in Greek Δωδεκάπολις). The league was mostly an economic and religious league, or a loose confederation, similar to the Greek states.

    Religion

    The Greek heroes taken from Homer also appear extensively in art motifs.

    Architecture

    Relatively little is known about the architecture of the ancient Etruscans. They adapted the native Italic styles with influence from the external appearance of Greek architecture.

    Ancient Roman architecture began with Etruscan styles, and then accepted still further Greek influence.

    Art

    Bucchero wares in black were the early and native styles of fine Etruscan pottery. There was also a tradition of elaborate Etruscan vase painting, which sprung from its Greek equivalent; the Etruscans were the main export market for Greek vases.

    Literature

    Etruscan texts, written in a space of seven centuries, use a form of the Greek alphabet due to close contact between the Etruscans and the Greek colonies at Pithecusae and Cumae in the 8th century BC (until it was no longer used, at the beginning of the 1st century AD).

    Etruscan imaginative literature is evidenced only in references by later Roman authors, but it is evident from their visual art that the Greek myths were well-known

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization


    Etruscan alphabet

    The Etruscan alphabet apparently derives from the Western Greek alphabet used in the Greek colonies in southern Italy. Several Old Italic scripts, including the Latin alphabet, derived from it (or simultaneously with it).

    The Etruscan alphabet apparently originated as an adaptation of the Western Greek alphabet used by the Euboean Greeks in their first colonies in Italy, the island of Pithekoussai and the city of Cumae in Campania.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_alphabet








    Etruscan Bronze Warrior

    Etruscan warfare seems to have initially followed Greek principles and the use of hoplites – wearing a bronze breastplate, Corinthian helmet, greaves for the legs, and a large circular shield – deployed in the static phalanx formation,


    Etruscan Temple Model

    https://www.ancient.eu/Etruscan_Civilization/
    Don't forget that in Sicily and Sardinia there were phoenicians long before any greeks from Greece..( trade exchange between Etruscans and Sardinians is well "documented" ) and this occured before any contact with greeks


    Nora "stele" is still considered the oldest Phoenician inscription found in Sardinia ..1000 B.C..


    1000 B.C.. phoenicians settlements in Sardinia



    Nora "rock/stele" 900-1100 B.C. found in Sardinian..phoenicians inscriptions..



    Don't forget that in Sardinian there was the NURAGIC civilization... 1500-2000 B.C.




  3. #143
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    Depends on who's in question. A Greek will probably feel slightly more in common with a Turk compared to an Anglo-Saxon. Likewise, a Sicilian might also feel slightly more in common with a Lebanese than a German.

    This is ignoring religion obviously. If we add religion into it I'd say Albanians and Bosnians feel much closer to Turks by almost every measure.

    Overall I'd say Europeans and non-Europeans are distinct even in Mediterranean regions, but if you narrow down to more specific regions and ethnic groups you can definitely find connecting points.

  4. #144
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    Nowadays they are culturally closer to north-europeans

  5. #145
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    No, I think they are their own thing.

  6. #146
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    I think since ancient times, northern Italy and northern Spain are culturally closer to Western Europe, while southern Italy and Greece are closer to the Mediterranean in ancient times, whether it is Europe or not. Now, southern Italy and Greece still have closer ties with the Mediterranean, but they are also influenced by Northern Europe

  7. #147
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    We are the influencers not the influenced.

    Greeks are hospitable, chatty highly communal, outgoing and social we have nothing to do with Northern Europeans. We are our own thing,
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

    Definition of untrustworthy and loose character are those that don't believe in God.


  8. #148
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    Depends which southern european, on average south eastern greeks are closer to middle easterners by genetic cluster
    northern italians and spaniards are inbetween roughly

  9. #149
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    Greece and south central Italy id say is slightly maybe barely more in common with non euro meds like Levantines Samaritans jews etc. I’d say Spain and north Italy are pretty comfortably closer to other euros French Swiss Austrians south Germans Belgium

  10. #150
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    We see all the Mediterranean countries as very distant, if they are not European, even more distant due to cultural and religious factors. Religion influences a lot because it has left traditions and celebrations with which you can feel more identified, after all where do you see foreigners, on TV? People are in their countries with their families and friends, they do not interact with foreigners who are thousands of miles away and if you travel abroad you are in a Hotel you do not get to interact or share daily life with the natives of any country so you will not get a true and reliable idea of how they are or how they live. The Mediterranean, people live on the mainland.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY7449/
    E-V22 - E-BY7449 - E-BY7566 - E-FT155550
    According to oral family tradition E-FT155550 comes from a deserter of Napoleon's troops (1808-1813) who stayed in Spain and changed his surname.

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