Irish and East Slavic - a secret connection (+ Irish/English comparison from my own eyes)

[Jana]

This thread is dedicated to 2 seemingly completely different and unrelated groups- culturally , genetically and historically.

Yet, I noticed some things.

1. I recently have seen more than few Irish tourists who were oddly eastern european looking , and after speaking with them turned out they were of purely Irish origin often from rural areas.

Now , it is clear 2 groups are extremely easy to distinguish from each other (most western vs most eastern looking euros ?) BUT, on average, you will more easily find Russian looking Irish than Russian looking English. And English are more "eastern" lookong than Irish...how so ?

Well, English are continental Euro shifted but towards Netherlands, Germany or France , rarely more east than that (forget Daniel Craig for a moment)

I have seen really lot of English and Irish people recently and I can say they look different on average (genetic similarities and mixing of these 2 trough history aside)

For a start, English people clearly have sharper features than Irish on average. Call it Germanic or whowever you want. Irish on the other hand got lot more rounder, softer features and more youthful faces, kind of like eastern slavs.

English got sharper, longer and thinner noses than Irish, more like Germans/Dutch for example. Irish very often have small, snub and fleshy noses which again reminds me of east slavs.

I concluded Brunn phenotype, which is quite more common in Irish than English, has quite a bit similarities to Baltid types, very common among East Slavs. Curly hair aside. Most Irish I have seen have straight hair btw! English were more Keltic Nordic influenced, closer to common German Norid type.

Stature and pigmentation: English are taller on average, and leaner. Idk where does fat English stereotype comes from, English visiting my island tend to be rail thin, especially men, with very long faces/skulls. Visibly more elongated than German tourists, for example. Maybe upper middle class visiting my neck of woods ?

Irish were shorther and more rounder (especially face) on average than English, but by no means fat. This bring us to east slavs again, who have similar stature. Ofc there were quite a lot of very English looking Irish, who cant be distinguished at all, but those specific Irish types really can overlap with eastern europeans suprisingly well.

When it comes to pigmentation Irish were more uniformly brunet and more rufous, English clearly blonder and black haired at same time! Contrary to Black Irish stereotype, English had more almost black haired, meddish types, but at same time clear Germanic looking blondes.

Irish groups here were mostly brown haired (all shades), lacking super light and super swarthy types which again reminded me of eastern Slavs.

I wonder, could this be explained by genetics ?

Irish and Russians for example have some of highest steppe/ANE levels in Europe, despite being different genetically. Could this explain such unexpected similarities between those 2 groups ?

I really saw more than few ethnic Irish girls which would be classifed as Brunn here probably, who have no issue to pass in example Ukraine. Younger guys too. Softness of their features has something to do with it. English on the other hand do have more defined, mature features.

Interestingly, lot of Scottish I have seen and spoke to looked more English than Irish, despite they are genetically closer to Irish ? Idk how to explain that, maybe coincidence.

Lastly: isnt it funny how popular srereotype of Irish reminded of Ukrainians or Russians for example ? This mostly died of but still: good fighters, tough, like to drink, musical, friendly, bit undisciplined bit full of spirit ?

I am quite sure this is past now, but it is funny how even there seem to be some kind of unexpected, hidden connection

Share your insight if you want

PS: I have visited and spend time in both England and Ireland for few weeks, also have interacted with really big numbers of British Islanders and Russians in last few weeks.

[farke1]

As far as I know, both Brünn and Ladogan are Western and Eastern branches of the Upper Paleolithic type, respectively. Perhaps that might explain something?

[21993]

Yes it is ANE connection.

[Jana]

As far as I know, both Brünn and Ladogan are Western and Eastern branches of the Upper Paleolithic type, respectively. Perhaps that might explain something?

Yes, I think so (east baltic too)

[Token]

They look similar because they are basically identical in genetic terms. The same applies to all Northern Europeans.

[Dick]

I find that hard to believe. I’ve never met an old stock “Anglophone”(includes people with Irish ancestry) Canadian that can pass as east European or Slav

[Jana]

I find that hard to believe. I’ve never met an old stock “Anglophone”(includes people with Irish ancestry) Canadian that can pass as east European or Slav

Well I did quite a few. And also I have seen quite a few of Russians with red hair here, maybe Udmurt admixture.

[Dick]

Here’s some rural Irish anthropology pictures that are not from Coon. Maybe at first glance but no not really east Europeans

[Jana]

They look similar because they are basically identical in genetic terms. The same applies to all Northern Europeans.

In Europe north/south divide is greater than east/west especially among young, in my opinion.

[Creoda]

It's true that there is a greater phenotypical difference between English and Irish than most people on these forums think (they are largely unacquainted). I would agree with most of your observations, although black hair is more common in Ireland than England, while blue eyes are more common in the former. The truth is English and Irish people are not quite as closely related as PCA's would have you believe, obviously they are fundamentally close as they come from essentially the same Bronze Age stock, but English people are mostly descended from post-Bronze Age continental Celtic and Germanic invasions, while the Irish are likely mostly descended from the original Bronze Age Beakers that settled in Ireland. IBD data I think shows this divide better than anything.

With regards to the Irish East Slavic connection I can't say, but there are obviously some people in the British Isles as a whole who look strangely Eastern European and some who look strangely Southern. Again it surely goes back to the original Bell Beaker stock of Britain and Ireland, who were both darker haired and more Eastern looking than modern NW Euro's generally.