Italy =/= North Italy. That sample could be from anywhere, even Naples. I don't even know what that study has to do with PISA... again, I'm not trying to prove that North Italians are smarter than Scandinavians. I was trying to prove that going by PISA natives scores on mathematics literacy (PISA 2012, I specifically selected that year because it's the most recent one -you did the same with IQ studies- and because PISA 2015 has no scores for the native students at the regional level) North Italians score higher than Scandinavia, and I was correct.
The point is not how many 15yo kids are going to be descended from that 7% of foreigners in 1970, but how many Pisa-defined natives (not first, not second, but third generation immigrants), you're stuck in this low IQ argument.
Anyway, of that 7%, 74% were from Scandinavia, Germanic countries, Anglo-Saxon countries and Belgium, I found the stats:
About farmers and illiterates, you could say the same about Venetians, Friulans and Emilians migrating in North-West Italy in the 40-50-60s (an article that talks about Triveneto immigration to Piedmont, in Italian:
https://www.biellaclub.it/libri/Stor...razioneVeneta/) and affecting their modern PISA scores (in addition to terroni obviously). Just look at the distribution in the 90s of these typical Venetian surnames: Trevisan (literally 'from Treviso' in Venetian):
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...isan&s=Genera; Pavan (literally 'from Padua' in Venetian):
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...avan&s=Genera; Visentin (literally 'from Vicenza' in Venetian):
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...ntin&s=Genera; Furlan (literally 'from Friuli' in Venetian):
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rlan&s=Genera; Carraro, Vianello, Favaro, Fabris, Masiero, Pavanello, Zambon, Marangon, Dal Molin, Schiavon, Piovesan, Trentin, Ballarin, Bordignon, Bressan, Zago, Frigo, Sartor, Bonato, Simionato, Baggio, Lorenzon, Baldan, Berton (other typical Venetian surnames):
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rraro&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...nello&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...avaro&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...abris&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...siero&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...nello&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...nello&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...ambon&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...angon&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...molin&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...iavon&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...vesan&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...entin&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...larin&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...ignon&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...essan&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...=zago&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...frigo&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...artor&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...onato&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...onato&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...aggio&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...enzon&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...aldan&s=Genera).
They all have a huge presence in North-Western Italy, the big circles in the North-West are Milan and Turin, the small circles are said cities' metropolitan areas towns.
They are not shared surnames, a shared surname with different origins between let's say Piedmont and Veneto is Rosso ('red-haired'): (
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rosso&s=Genera). A pan-northern Italian surname with different origins is Ferrari (literally Smith but plural):
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rrari&s=Genera. 2 pan-north-central Italian surnames with different origins are Bianchi (literally White, but plural):
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...anchi&s=Genera and Rossi ('red-haired', plural):
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rossi&s=Genera.
Typical Piedmontese surnames, on the contrary, are virtually non-existent in north-east Italy (so no migration), ex. Ferrero, Cordero, Cravero, Cavallero, Olivero, Barbero, Boero, Panero, Pautasso, Dalmasso, Sarasso, Viarengo, Giordanengo, Martinengo, Girardengo, Ariaudo, Arnaudo, Giraudo, Einaudi, Dutto, Brustia, Coda Zabetta, Fassio, Raviola, Bonino, Pagella, Bo, Fenoglio, Barale, Barberis, Beccaria:
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rrero&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rdero&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...avero&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...llero&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...ivero&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rbero&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...boero&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...anero&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...tasso&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...masso&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rasso&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...rengo&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...nengo&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...nengo&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...dengo&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...iaudo&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...naudo&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...raudo&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...naudi&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...dutto&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...ustia&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...betta&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...assio&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...viola&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...onino&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...gella&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...ur=bo&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...oglio&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...arale&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...beris&s=Genera,
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...caria&s=Genera.
Well, no coincidence. There is no documented migration from Piedmont to Veneto in the last 200 years.
Well, you can take Lombardy as a proxy for northern Italy (for instance, you do that genetically, because the north Italian centroid lies between Bergamo and Milano, accounting for the more southern-shifted Ligurians and Emilians and the more northern-shifted north-east Italians and Piedmontese, and with light eyes rate: 37% for northern Italy according to Livi, same number for Lombardy, figure ranges from 30% in Emilia-Romagna to 49-50% in the Venetian Alps).
So let's take Lombardy in PISA 2003 and compare it with Swedish Finns and Scandinavian countries.
Scandinavian countries (natives, it's 2003 so fuck off):
Norway = 499
Sweden = 517
Denmark = 520
Source:
Lombardy (all): 519
Source:
Now, native students were the 92%, immigrants the 6.2%, missing answers were the 1.8%.
Let's say of that 1.8% of missing answers, half were immigrants. He now have a figure of 93% and 7% for natives and immigrants respectively.
We know that the immigrant mean score in Lombardy was 423:
So we can calculate the mean for native ''Lombards'', 526. Now, let's say that in 2003, between 20% and 35% of the natives were of terrone origin (my estimates, considering that between 1958 and 1963 800k terroni migrated to the Triangolo Industriale area -Genoa-Milan-Turin triangle-, source in Italian:
http://www.museotorino.it/view/s/bdd...2b6539e0d1cee7, and that the population of Liguria-Lombardy-Piedmont-Aosta in 1963 was 9.650.000, source ISTAT:
http://dati.istat.it/Index.aspx?Data..._RICPOPRES1971, and that now, the roster of a small football team from the Turin area has 15 (62.5%) southern Italian surnames in it -Assetta, Benarrivato, Bocchicchio, Cesareo, Corona, D'Italia, De Rosa, Gervasi, Gioielli, Iovino, Loi, Parisi, Raimo, Scappaticci, Serpa-, only 4 (16.7%) Piedmontese surnames - Casse, Humbert, Moia, Tonda-, 4 (16.7%) north Italian surnames from other regions -Andreis (Lombardy-Veneto-Trentino), Borgobello (Friuli), Degli Esposti (Bologna), Michieli (Veneto)-, and 1 pan-Italian surname (Varese):
https://www.tuttocampo.it/Piemonte/P...co/933981/Rosa).
Not so far-fetched estimates, you can ask other Italian users, they can confirm.
We know that the mean score of terroni in terronia, in 2003, was 426 (428 for the Campania-Molise-Abruzzo-Apulia megaregion, 423 for the Calabria-Sicily-Sardegna-Basilicata megaregion --> same score of immigrants in Lombardy btw), source (2nd table):
So we can calculate the mean score for 'real' native Lombards, 551-580, depending on the percentage of terroni.
That would put 'real' native Lombards (a proxy for north Italians) above all native Scandinavians the same year:
Lombardy (real natives): 551-580
Swedish Finns: 535
Lombardy (natives): 526
Denmark (natives): 520
Lombardy (all): 519
Sweden (natives): 517
Norway (natives): 499
What's funny is that you're totally fine with Trentini scoring higher than Swedish Finns, and at the same time with Piedmontese-Aostans, a population that is as genetically northern-shifted as Trentini, Aostans being basically French (pic), scoring closer to Apulia than to Veneto:
Lol, you mentioned it here, 2 years ago, under the ItaliansAreWhiiite username:
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/201...right-part-ii/
The 99 for Pisa seems to be the most likely number for the north, ignoring the old 1962 study and the adult study from the capital which is more likely to have a selected sample(especially since it’s from the capital) rather than kids. (cit.)
GDP per capita? Not really useful when comparing different countries. USA has a higher GDP per capita than the Netherlands, now compare USA whites PISA scores with native Dutch or Flemish. And, we have something like 20,637,360 terroni and 2 856 133 Romans leeching our money, plus the ones in North-Central Italy. We can't create a good economy with them. It's simply impossible.
Tax surplus map:
Stockholm vs Rome 1980 IQ? What in the world does Rome (a city where 2/3 of the population as of 2010 has total or partial non-roman ancestry, mostly from the South, article in Italian:
https://roma.repubblica.it/cronaca/2...u_due-6925805/) have to do with northern Italy? Btw that study had Rome at 103.8, Oslo at 101.8, Copenhagen at 100.7 and Helsinki at 98.1.
Surnames are actually a good of way of tracking ancestry in Italy, they're usually macro-area/region-specific, sometimes even province or town-specific. North Italian surnames are not present in southern Italy, while south Italian surnames, even the less common ones, have always some presence in northern Italy. Stereotypical Lombard surnames are almost non-existent in southern Italy, es. Brambilla, Fumagalli, Crippa, Scaccabarozzi, Acquistapace, Beretta, Valsecchi, Cattaneo, Bizzozzero, Ballabio, Perego, Salmoiraghi, Cazzaniga, Orsenigo, Vigano', Bonasegale, Valcarenghi, Cambianica, Cislaghi, Uslenghi, Barlassina, Bargiggia, Tanfoglio, Pirola, Lattuada, Dellavedova, Scaramellini, Baronio, Trussardi, Bugatti, Pizzaballa, Fratus, Noris, Acerbis, Bonacina, Fanzaga, Galbusera, Scandroglio, Prada, Bascialla, Belingheri, Trentarossi, Treccani, Gambirasio, Carminati, Quecchia, Ghiringhelli (you can check them here:
https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index...billa&s=Genera), same goes from typical Latian surnames like Lollobrigida, Principessa, Gasbarrone, Malandruccolo, Falamesca, Perciballi, Labbadia, Meloccaro, Di Viccaro, Manauzzi, Foffo, Balzotti. On the contrary, typical Sicilian surnames like Santonocito, Castrogiovanni, Stracquadanio, Pipitone, Spampinato, Riina, Briguglio, or Mastroberardino, Paparusso, Acquafredda, Abatantuono (from Apulia) have all a presence in Turin and Milan. But it's when you look at the most common ones, like Russo, Santoro, Greco, Morabito, Esposito, D'Angelo, De Rosa and Caruso, that you understand the magnitude of the terronization of northern Italy, started in the 50s:
http://uninomade.org/wp/wp-content/u...-and-1960s.pdf
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