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Thread: The EU is a sham democracy

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    No shit.. Water is wet, Paris is the capital of France, the Pope is Catholic, one-legged ducks swim in circles and sea water is salt.



    Only Anglo-Saxon countries can do democracy. The natural state of human society is despotism. If you tally up all the human lives that have ever been lived on this planet under organized systems of government, no more than five per cent were lived under consensual systems. Even to get up to five per cent, you have to include places like ancient Athens and Tudor England, which wouldn’t pass muster as “democratic” by modern standards. In the last couple of centuries, practically all consensual systems have been Anglo-Saxon. Other cultures can fake it for a few decades, as France, Germany, and Japan are currently doing, but their hearts aren’t really in it and they will swoon gratefully into the arms of a fascist dictator when one comes along.--John Derbyshire





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    ^ You forget that Switzerland and Iceland also have traditional democracies and that the state of Anglo "democracies" is often hopelessly antiquated from a legal pov. The kind of tyranny that now befalls England would not have been possible in several continental European countries as there are constitutional safeguards.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    ^ You forget that Switzerland and Iceland also have traditional democracies and that the state of Anglo "democracies" is often hopelessly antiquated from a legal pov. The kind of tyranny that now befalls England would not have been possible in several continental European countries as there are constitutional safeguards.
    England is the home of the concept of habeas corpus, the glorious revolution, John Locke and John Stuart Mill etc... etc.. I know of no great figures or genius thinkers from say Iceland on this issue. So according to you habeas corpus would be antiquated ? Meanwhile , it is a cornerstone of civil democracy. If instead you mean not habeas corpus but the proportional representation system then systematic methods of applying proportional representation were first developed in the mid-19th century in Denmark by Carl Andrae and in Britain by Thomas Hare and John Stuart Mill. Methods currently in use include the single-transferable-vote method (STV), the party-list system, and the additional-member system. Also, England is currently in the EU with it's sham d’Hondt approach as Brexit has not come to fruition , yet and England is allied to America which is technically a tyrannical oligarchy filled with German Americans as places like Pennsylvania are like German colonies and Trump is half German. Anyway, I find the Dutch are anal and must try to be correct on everything. So the combination of being in the EU and allied with oligarchic America has deleterious affects on true Democracy in England.

    Iceland is a parliamentary republic not a parliamentary democracy and Switzerland is a Switzerland is a semi-direct democratic federal republic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesBond007 View Post
    England is the home of the concept of habeas corpus, the glorious revolution, John Locke and John Stuart Mill etc... etc.. I know of no great figures or genius thinkers from say Iceland on this issue. So according to you habeas corpus would be antiquated ? Meanwhile , it is a cornerstone of civil democracy. If instead you mean not habeas corpus but the proportional representation system then systematic methods of applying proportional representation were first developed in the mid-19th century in Denmark by Carl Andrae and in Britain by Thomas Hare and John Stuart Mill. Methods currently in use include the single-transferable-vote method (STV), the party-list system, and the additional-member system. Also, England is currently in the EU with it's sham d’Hondt approach as Brexit has not come to fruition , yet and England is allied to America which is technically a tyrannical oligarchy filled with German Americans as places like Pennsylvania are like German colonies and Trump is half German. Anyway, I find the Dutch are anal and must try to be correct on everything. So the combination of being in the EU and allied with oligarchic America has deleterious affects on true Democracy in England.

    Iceland is a parliamentary republic not a parliamentary democracy and Switzerland is a Switzerland is a semi-direct democratic federal republic.
    Using definitions are a great way to make people look away from what's actually at play: if England had been a real democracy, then this referendum would long since have led to a Brexit. Habeas corpus is applied when it suits the authorities (parents who tried to save their daughters from Islamic rapists were arrested and so were people like Robinson who tried to discuss the matter while the rapists themselves are allowed to run riot). The British people themselves do not hold any control over their government which can do as it pleases free from the constraints of a constitution. Wouldn't happen in Switzerland or Iceland, that's for sure. The British also do not have a constitutional court (something many continental European countries do).

    While I find the British system to be admirable for its time (the 1700s.. a direct result of the DUTCH Glorious Revolution btw), it has fallen out of touch with the time (let me put it in terms you would understand: it's like using a manual for a stage coach to drive an Aston Martin on a motorway). If Europe needs democratisation (and we do), then Britain is not the model. Switzerland is.

    To also refer to the British Enlightenment: much of that was in sync with what was going on on the continent: Locke got some of his ideas from de Groot, Descartes and Huygens. In fact: when Britain became too dangerous for him, he left for the Dutch Republic (the liberal power at the time) where he published An essay concerning human understanding. Which was nothing new in British history anyway: when people like the Puritans were in trouble, they ran to the Dutch Republic. When the Dutch had trouble because of Spain, they used English ports as their bases of attack. Much like how Voltaire and Diderot (and others) ran from France to Britain during the 18th century as their ideas had already been put into practice (thanks to the 1688 Revolution).

    It would be fairer to say that there is no such thing as "British Exceptionalism" as Britain and the Continent were going the same way in terms of political thinking but, together with the Netherlands and smaller places like Denmark and some Swiss cities, were unique in their application.

    As for the EU electoral system: it was designed by a Belgian and considered advanced for its time (but it certainly brought forth a lot of problems which makes it about as obsolete as the British system). As for the Germans that you slag off so much: had the EU had a German designer (such as Ludwig Erhard (who made West Germany rich by ignoring British and American ideas of state-planning and de-industrialisation) which was passed over by the likes of the Frenchman Robert Schuman, you would have had what West Germany was during the 1950s, early 1960s: a liberal economic powerhouse with a functioning parliamentary democracy - rather than this French dirigisme designed by a man that also helped to design Labour's economic ideas during the 1940s. (yes: I do need to remind you that Britain was a near-socialist country during the 1940s-1979 whereas much of Western Europe wasn't - particularly not the (West) Germans that you like to slag off. From the Brexit Movie:

    Last edited by The Lawspeaker; 09-18-2019 at 02:19 PM.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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