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Thread: Eye and hair colour distribution among 488 Irish (both sexes studied)

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    Veteran Member The Blade's Avatar
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    Default Eye and hair colour distribution among 488 Irish (both sexes studied)

    After my previous surveys, here is a thread of the same kind for the Irish.
    244 individuals of each sex were included.
    The males are footballers and staff members from Ireland's Premier Division - the vast majority hail from the Republic of Ireland, a small minority are Northern Irish:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lic_of_Ireland
    The female sample consists of 230 women competing in the sports of football, Gaelic football and camogie. The remaining 14 are randomly picked actresses. All females are from the Republic of Ireland.
    Sources I based my results for females on:
    http://dublinladiesgaelic.ie/player-...nior-Team-2018
    http://tipperaryladiesfootball.ie/playerProfiles/509
    http://www.camogie.tipperary.gaa.ie/...s/Schools.aspx
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republ..._football_team
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lic_of_Ireland
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...film_actresses
    Here I'd like to specially thank Grace O'Malley who provided a lot of ''material'' for me to conduct this survey - 81 women I included in my sample come from her sources.
    Several of the females had dyed blonde hair (I saw photos from their younger days and other convincing ones) and I counted them with their natural shades. One woman had dyed her hair dark when she is obviously a natural blonde (counted as such by me, of course).
    I used the Fischer-Saller scale to determine hair colour:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fische...93Saller_scale
    Colours A to O are what the scale and I count as blond.
    The numbers V and VI reflect reddish blond hair and affect both blondism and rufosity values. Deeper orange shades I also include as reddish blond.
    The rest of the colours include:
    - light brown
    - medium brown (including medium ash brown nuances)
    - dark brown (again including some dark ash brown forms)
    - black
    - reddish brown
    - pure red
    To estimate the eye colours distribution I used the Martin-Schultz scale. Green eyes with brown spots when green dominates I count as light. Evenly mixed green-brown shades and such where brown dominates I consider hazel and don't count as light.
    The Martin-Schultz scale includes:
    1-2 : blue iris (1a, 1b, 1c, 2a : light blue iris - 2b : darker blue iris)
    3 : blue-gray iris
    4 : gray iris (4a, 4b)
    5 : blue-gray iris with yellow/brown spots
    6 : gray-green iris with yellow/brown spots
    7 : green iris
    8 : green iris with yellow/brown spots
    9-10-11 : light-brown and hazel iris
    12-13 : medium brown iris
    14-15-16 : dark-brown and black iris
    My source:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin...3Schultz_scale
    Colours 1-8 I consider light. 9 is where non-light eyes begin for me.

    Here are the males' results showing number of people with the respective colour and the percentage it occupies within a total of 244 men:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue – 115 (47,13%)
    Blue-green – 12 (4,92%)
    Blue-grey – 4 (1,64%)
    Green-grey – 13 (5,33%)
    Green – 20 (8,2%)
    Grey – 18 (7,38%)
    Brown – 31 (12,7%)
    Hazel – 31 (12,7%)
    Total light eyes frequency: 74,6% (182 individuals)
    Non-light (brown + hazel): 25,4% (62 men)
    Blue and blue-mixed light eyes combined: 53,69% (131 individuals)
    Grey and grey-mixed light eyes combined: 14,35% (35 players and staff members)
    Hair colour distribution:
    Blond – 13 (5,33%)
    Reddish blond – 1 (0,41%)
    Red – 4 (1,64%)
    Reddish brown – 2 (0,82%)
    Light brown – 21 (8,6%)
    Medium brown – 59 (24,18%)
    Medium ash brown – 24 (9,83%)
    Dark brown – 90 (36,89%)
    Dark ash brown – 17 (6,97%)
    Black – 13 (5,33%)
    Total blondism percentage: 5,74% (14 individuals)
    Total rufosity rate: 2,87% (7 men)
    Total brown hair frequency: 87,29% (213 individuals)
    Medium brown shades percentage (including the ashy tones): 34,01% (83 males)
    Dark brown shades (including ashy nuances): 43,86% (107 people)
    Dark hair (dark brown shades + black): 49,19% (120 individuals)

    Phenotypes I saw among Irish men:
    1) The main element is a brown- to dark/black-haired Nordic type. Like the Hallstatt Nordid, it has compressed gonial angles and is chamaecranic (low-skulled). Forehead is narrower and hair colour darker. It likely represents an ancient and largely local strain. There is no sign of Mediterranid admixture in facial and skull features, so don't think I'm talking about a supposed (North) Atlantid type - I don't mean this.
    By the way, here is how Irish people plot genetically within Europe:

    As you can see, they are far closer to Norway and Denmark than they are to Spain, Portugal or Italy.
    2) Keltic Nordid. From my observations, this is the universal type of the United Kingdom and Ireland common throughout this area.
    3) Brunn. The main Upper Paleolithic type among Irish men. Faelid and Borreby exist but to a lesser extent.
    4) Paleo Atlantid. Another coarse type. Irish men seem mainly in the range of average/robust Aurignacids and robust Paleo types. The overall look is slightly more robust than among English men.
    5) Nordocromagnid types in the Trønder/Anglo-Saxon range.
    6) Certain Southern European tendencies exist in the form of Berid/Paleo-Sardinian type (brachycephalized mix of Alpine, CM and Atlanto-Mediterranean). Some individuals show stronger Atlanto-Med element in the mix escaping brachycephaly and thus diverging from the standard type.
    7) Dinarid and Norid (Nordo-Dinaric) types.
    8) Hallstatt and Corded Nordid.
    9) Alpines and Alpine-Nordic blends.

    And now the ladies' results:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue – 136 (55,74%)
    Blue-green – 1 (0,41%)
    Blue-grey – 10 (4,1%)
    Green-grey – 9 (3,69%)
    Green – 3 (1,23%)
    Grey – 44 (18,03%)
    Brown – 24 (9,83%)
    Hazel – 17 (6,97%)
    Total light eyes frequency: 83,2% (203 women)
    Dark/dark-mixed eyes: 16,8% (41 women)
    Hair colour distribution:
    Blonde – 38 (15,57%)
    Reddish blonde – 3 (1,23%)
    Red – 10 (4,1%)
    Reddish brown – 4 (1,64%)
    Light brown – 27 (11,07%)
    Medium brown – 72 (29,51%)
    Medium ash brown – 31 (12,7%)
    Dark brown – 44 (18,03%)
    Dark ash brown – 10 (4,1%)
    Black – 5 (2,05%)
    Total blondism rate: 16,8% (41 individuals)
    Total rufosity value: 6,97% (17 individuals)
    Total brown hair rate: 77,05% (188 ladies)
    Medium brown shades percentage (including the ashy tones): 42,21% (103 women)
    Dark brown hair (including the ashy nuances): 22,13% (54 women)
    Dark hair (dark brown shades & black): 24,18% (59 women)

    Phenotypes amidst females:
    1) The type I mentioned among males on first place is common among women, too, but there is quite a parity between it, the Keltic Nordic and Nordocromagnid types. Among women it doesn't dominate so strongly in my view.
    2) Brunn is again the main Cro-Magnon element. Dalofaelid and to a lesser extent Borreby are present.
    3) Other types like unmixed Hallstatts and Cordeds, Norids, Dinarids, Paleo Atlantids, Alpines, Nordo-Mediterraneans and Sub-Nordids can also be found.

    As was the case with the English, women show stronger light eyes and blondism affinity.
    One thing that deserves to be mentioned is that out of all people I have studied so far Irish women show the highest grey eyes frequency.

    Finally, the combined results based on both sexes:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue – 251 (51,44%)
    Blue-green – 13 (2,66%)
    Blue-grey – 14 (2,87%)
    Green-grey – 22 (4,51%)
    Green – 23 (4,71%)
    Grey – 62 (12,7%)
    Brown – 55 (11,27%)
    Hazel – 48 (9,84%)
    Total light eyes frequency: 78,89% (385 individuals)
    Dark/dark-mixed eyes total: 21,11% (103 individuals)
    Hair colour distribution:
    Blond/blonde – 51 (10,45%)
    Reddish blond/blonde – 4 (0,82%)
    Red – 14 (2,87%)
    Reddish brown – 6 (1,23%)
    Light brown – 48 (9,84%)
    Medium brown – 131 (26,84%)
    Medium ash brown – 55 (11,27%)
    Dark brown – 134 (27,46%)
    Dark ash brown – 27 (5,53%)
    Black – 18 (3,69%)
    Total blondism rate: 11,27% (55 people)
    Total rufosity value: 4,92% (24 people)
    Total brown hair frequency: 84,17%
    Medium brown hair shades: 38,11% (186 individuals)
    Dark brown shades: 32,99% (161 people)
    Dark hair total (dark brown tones + black): 36,68% (179 individuals)

    Hair texture among both sexes is mostly straight followed by wavy and then curly.
    Last edited by The Blade; 07-06-2019 at 10:17 PM.
    After not shaving for a while:

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    This number of light eyes fit very well with Hotton Harvard study (77,8%) if we exclude "pronouncedly light mixed" which is close to evenly mixed, and include only "very pronouncedly light mixed" which is mostly light mixed eyes. Especially if we take into consideration that resolution of images which Blade made the study isn't extremely high. Blue eyes fit roughly with Blue + Gray-blue from Hotton.


    Hotton study:

    Pure brown 0,5%
    Gray brown 5% (mixed)
    Green brown 3,4% (mixed)
    Blue brown 43,9% (mixed)
    Gray and gray-blue 4,4%
    Blue 42,4%

    Mixed eyes are a total of 52,3% giving us the following figures

    Pure brown 0,5%
    All Mixed eyes 52,3%
    Gray and gray-blue 4,4%
    Blue 42,4%

    Out of “mixed” eyes

    3,2% very pronouncedly dark (or 1,7% of the total)
    7,2% pronouncedly dark (or 3,8% of the total)
    12,4% mixed equally (or 6,5% of the total)
    17,9% pronouncedly light mixed (or 9,4% of the total)
    59,3% very pronouncedly light (or 31% of the total)

    So overall

    0,5% Pure brown
    1,7% Very pronouncedly dark
    3,8% Pronouncedly dark
    6,5% Mixed equally
    9,4% Pronouncedly light mixed
    31% Very pronouncedly light mixed
    4,4% Gray and gray-blue
    42,4% Blue


    The fact that numbers don't fit perfectly with Blade's study shouldn't be surprising since the Harvard study was done on live subjects under very close proximity where it is possible to distinguish mostly dark mixed eyes from pure browns and also all mixed eyes appear lighter live than on low res images on the internet.

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    Also I'm slightly surprised Irish aren't lighter eyed than English. It's possible there would be a difference in pure brown eyes if the study way done on very HQ images.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    Also I'm slightly surprised Irish aren't lighter eyed than English. It's possible there would be a difference in pure brown eyes if the study way done on very HQ images.
    Don't think I only used these photos.
    Yes, they are my source but I googled every single person to be precise, as I usually do.
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    pictures, tables, photos, I can't read

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade View Post
    Don't think I only used these photos.
    Yes, they are my source but I googled every single person to be precise, as I usually do.
    It is either you don't know how to compare colours ( get tutored) or you just made a mistake. The Irish are as a whole for a fact lighter and bluer-eyed than the English and other British groups. The Harvard University study done by anthropologists working in conjunction with the governments of both Ireland and Northern Ireland on approximately 10,000 people from all over the country found the overall percentage for pure dark eyes or pure brown eyes to be 0.5%. This was an astonishment for them too. The vast majority of the Irish people have light or mixed eye colours. Yes, obviously the Keltic Nordid phenotype would be more "pure" in Ireland due to less admixture with Romans or other invaders after the Kelts!
    In skin colour, the Irish I could say have a "whiter" complexion than most Southern Europeans. Thus it would hard to find a purely Mediterranean type. According to Harvard University study, slightly less than 33 persons out of 10,000 fit the pure Mediterranean. So we can erase the Med myth altogether.
    The North-Atlantid type is already a predominantly Nordid type, it is only darker-haired than other Nordid types, but skin complexion is pale and eyes are light especially blue.
    Last edited by Septentrion; 07-08-2019 at 12:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrion View Post
    It is either you don't know how to compare colours ( get tutored) or you just made a mistake. The Irish are as a whole for a fact lighter and bluer-eyed than the English and other British groups. The Harvard University study done by anthropologists working in conjunction with the governments of both Ireland and Northern Ireland on approximately 10,000 people from all over the country found the overall percentage for pure dark eyes or pure brown eyes to be 0.5%. This was an astonishment for them too. The vast majority of the Irish people have light or mixed eye colours. Yes, obviously the Keltic Nordid phenotype would be more "pure" in Ireland due to less admixture with Romans or other invaders after the Kelts!
    In skin colour, the Irish I could say have a "whiter" complexion than most Southern Europeans. Thus it would hard to find a purely Mediterranean type. According to Harvard University study, slightly less than 33 persons out of 10,000 fit the pure Mediterranean. So we can erase the Med myth altogether.
    The North-Atlantid type is already a predominantly Nordid type, it is only darker-haired than other Nordid types, but skin complexion is pale and eyes are light especially blue.
    Man, get real. There is no country in Europe where pure brown eyes make just 0,5% of the population. Not even Sweden or Finland.
    ''Pure brown'' in this study you quote probably reflects just the darkest brown nuances. Overall difference in eye colour between English and Irish in my studies is just 2,1% - far from being a great one. The Irish are predominantly light-eyed, as my results show, but nowhere near 0,5% brown-eyed.
    Statistics you guys post are often by different authors with very variable criteria depending on the individual - you can't expect them to be unified.
    I, on the other hand, use the same criterion every single time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade View Post
    After my previous surveys, here is a thread of the same kind for the Irish.
    244 individuals of each sex were included.
    The males are footballers and staff members from Ireland's Premier Division - the vast majority hail from the Republic of Ireland, a small minority are Northern Irish:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lic_of_Ireland
    The female sample consists of 230 women competing in the sports of football, Gaelic football and camogie. The remaining 14 are randomly picked actresses. All females are from the Republic of Ireland.
    Sources I based my results for females on:
    http://dublinladiesgaelic.ie/player-...nior-Team-2018
    http://tipperaryladiesfootball.ie/playerProfiles/509
    http://www.camogie.tipperary.gaa.ie/...s/Schools.aspx
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republ..._football_team
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lic_of_Ireland
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...film_actresses
    Here I'd like to specially thank Grace O'Malley who provided a lot of ''material'' for me to conduct this survey - 81 women I included in my sample come from her sources.
    Several of the females had dyed blonde hair (I saw photos from their younger days and other convincing ones) and I counted them with their natural shades. One woman had dyed her hair dark when she is obviously a natural blonde (counted as such by me, of course).
    I used the Fischer-Saller scale to determine hair colour:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fische...93Saller_scale
    Colours A to O are what the scale and I count as blond.
    The numbers V and VI reflect reddish blond hair and affect both blondism and rufosity values. Deeper orange shades I also include as reddish blond.
    The rest of the colours include:
    - light brown
    - medium brown (including medium ash brown nuances)
    - dark brown (again including some dark ash brown forms)
    - black
    - reddish brown
    - pure red
    To estimate the eye colours distribution I used the Martin-Schultz scale. Green eyes with brown spots when green dominates I count as light. Evenly mixed green-brown shades and such where brown dominates I consider hazel and don't count as light.
    The Martin-Schultz scale includes:
    1-2 : blue iris (1a, 1b, 1c, 2a : light blue iris - 2b : darker blue iris)
    3 : blue-gray iris
    4 : gray iris (4a, 4b)
    5 : blue-gray iris with yellow/brown spots
    6 : gray-green iris with yellow/brown spots
    7 : green iris
    8 : green iris with yellow/brown spots
    9-10-11 : light-brown and hazel iris
    12-13 : medium brown iris
    14-15-16 : dark-brown and black iris
    My source:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin...3Schultz_scale
    Colours 1-8 I consider light. 9 is where non-light eyes begin for me.

    Here are the males' results showing number of people with the respective colour and the percentage it occupies within a total of 244 men:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue – 115 (47,13%)
    Blue-green – 12 (4,92%)
    Blue-grey – 4 (1,64%)
    Green-grey – 13 (5,33%)
    Green – 20 (8,2%)
    Grey – 18 (7,38%)
    Brown – 31 (12,7%)
    Hazel – 31 (12,7%)
    Total light eyes frequency: 74,6% (182 individuals)
    Non-light (brown + hazel): 25,4% (62 men)
    Blue and blue-mixed light eyes combined: 53,69% (131 individuals)
    Grey and grey-mixed light eyes combined: 14,35% (35 players and staff members)
    Hair colour distribution:
    Blond – 13 (5,33%)
    Reddish blond – 1 (0,41%)
    Red – 4 (1,64%)
    Reddish brown – 2 (0,82%)
    Light brown – 21 (8,6%)
    Medium brown – 59 (24,18%)
    Medium ash brown – 24 (9,83%)
    Dark brown – 90 (36,89%)
    Dark ash brown – 17 (6,97%)
    Black – 13 (5,33%)
    Total blondism percentage: 5,74% (14 individuals)
    Total rufosity rate: 2,87% (7 men)
    Total brown hair frequency: 87,29% (213 individuals)
    Medium brown shades percentage (including the ashy tones): 34,01% (83 males)
    Dark brown shades (including ashy nuances): 43,86% (107 people)
    Dark hair (dark brown shades + black): 49,19% (120 individuals)

    Phenotypes I saw among Irish men:
    1) The main element is a brown- to dark/black-haired Nordic type. Like the Hallstatt Nordid, it has compressed gonial angles and is chamaecranic (low-skulled). Forehead is narrower and hair colour darker. It likely represents an ancient and largely local strain. There is no sign of Mediterranid admixture in facial and skull features, so don't think I'm talking about a supposed (North) Atlantid type - I don't mean this.
    By the way, here is how Irish people plot genetically within Europe:

    As you can see, they are far closer to Norway and Denmark than they are to Spain, Portugal or Italy.
    2) Keltic Nordid. From my observations, this is the universal type of the United Kingdom and Ireland common throughout this area.
    3) Brunn. The main Upper Paleolithic type among Irish men. Faelid and Borreby exist but to a lesser extent.
    4) Paleo Atlantid. Another coarse type. Irish men seem mainly in the range of average/robust Aurignacids and robust Paleo types. The overall look is slightly more robust than among English men.
    5) Nordocromagnid types in the Trønder/Anglo-Saxon range.
    6) Certain Southern European tendencies exist in the form of Berid/Paleo-Sardinian type (brachycephalized mix of Alpine, CM and Atlanto-Mediterranean). Some individuals show stronger Atlanto-Med element in the mix escaping brachycephaly and thus diverging from the standard type.
    7) Dinarid and Norid (Nordo-Dinaric) types.
    8) Hallstatt and Corded Nordid.
    9) Alpines and Alpine-Nordic blends.

    And now the ladies' results:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue – 136 (55,74%)
    Blue-green – 1 (0,41%)
    Blue-grey – 10 (4,1%)
    Green-grey – 9 (3,69%)
    Green – 3 (1,23%)
    Grey – 44 (18,03%)
    Brown – 24 (9,83%)
    Hazel – 17 (6,97%)
    Total light eyes frequency: 83,2% (203 women)
    Dark/dark-mixed eyes: 16,8% (41 women)
    Hair colour distribution:
    Blonde – 38 (15,57%)
    Reddish blonde – 3 (1,23%)
    Red – 10 (4,1%)
    Reddish brown – 4 (1,64%)
    Light brown – 27 (11,07%)
    Medium brown – 72 (29,51%)
    Medium ash brown – 31 (12,7%)
    Dark brown – 44 (18,03%)
    Dark ash brown – 10 (4,1%)
    Black – 5 (2,05%)
    Total blondism rate: 16,8% (41 individuals)
    Total rufosity value: 6,97% (17 individuals)
    Total brown hair rate: 77,05% (188 ladies)
    Medium brown shades percentage (including the ashy tones): 42,21% (103 women)
    Dark brown hair (including the ashy nuances): 22,13% (54 women)
    Dark hair (dark brown shades & black): 24,18% (59 women)

    Phenotypes amidst females:
    1) The type I mentioned among males on first place is common among women, too, but there is quite a parity between it, the Keltic Nordic and Nordocromagnid types. Among women it doesn't dominate so strongly in my view.
    2) Brunn is again the main Cro-Magnon element. Dalofaelid and to a lesser extent Borreby are present.
    3) Other types like unmixed Hallstatts and Cordeds, Norids, Dinarids, Paleo Atlantids, Alpines, Nordo-Mediterraneans and Sub-Nordids can also be found.

    As was the case with the English, women show stronger light eyes and blondism affinity.
    One thing that deserves to be mentioned is that out of all people I have studied so far Irish women show the highest grey eyes frequency.

    Finally, the combined results based on both sexes:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue – 251 (51,44%)
    Blue-green – 13 (2,66%)
    Blue-grey – 14 (2,87%)
    Green-grey – 22 (4,51%)
    Green – 23 (4,71%)
    Grey – 62 (12,7%)
    Brown – 55 (11,27%)
    Hazel – 48 (9,84%)
    Total light eyes frequency: 78,89% (385 individuals)
    Dark/dark-mixed eyes total: 21,11% (103 individuals)
    Hair colour distribution:
    Blond/blonde – 51 (10,45%)
    Reddish blond/blonde – 4 (0,82%)
    Red – 14 (2,87%)
    Reddish brown – 6 (1,23%)
    Light brown – 48 (9,84%)
    Medium brown – 131 (26,84%)
    Medium ash brown – 55 (11,27%)
    Dark brown – 134 (27,46%)
    Dark ash brown – 27 (5,53%)
    Black – 18 (3,69%)
    Total blondism rate: 11,27% (55 people)
    Total rufosity value: 4,92% (24 people)
    Total brown hair frequency: 84,17%
    Medium brown hair shades: 38,11% (186 individuals)
    Dark brown shades: 32,99% (161 people)
    Dark hair total (dark brown tones + black): 36,68% (179 individuals)

    Hair texture among both sexes is mostly straight followed by wavy and then curly.
    Thanks for all the hard work you have done. It is very interesting. There is a bit of discrepancy between the men and women but as you said that has been noticed before. Interesting about the grey eyes. I think most people would put grey with blue. I've never seen mentioned much about grey eyes regarding the Irish.

    Anyway it's good to get an outsider like yourself to do a study like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    Thanks for all the hard work you have done. It is very interesting. There is a bit of discrepancy between the men and women but as you said that has been noticed before. Interesting about the grey eyes. I think most people would put grey with blue. I've never seen mentioned much about grey eyes regarding the Irish.

    Anyway it's good to get an outsider like yourself to do a study like this.
    You are most welcome! I appreciate your help in providing me with part of the sources and your nice words, too!
    After not shaving for a while:

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade View Post
    You are most welcome! I appreciate your help in providing me with part of the sources and your nice words, too!
    I'm sure you'll want a break but what group are you planning on doing next?

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