Eye and hair colour distribution among 488 Irish (both sexes studied)

[The Blade]

You need to get real!!! A study done by professionals from Harvard University, these were physical anthropologists not some amateur. What scale are you using? The study involved 10,000 men from all over Ireland, going county by county. You would never reach that precision by yourself, these were helped by the Irish government at the time. Out of 10,000 persons surveyed, only 43 had pure brown eyes.

And you are not a professional either. They had a larger sample - no doubt.
I already clarified my scale in the OP - the Martin-Schultz scale:
1-2 : blue iris (1a, 1b, 1c, 2a : light blue iris - 2b : darker blue iris)
3 : blue-gray iris
4 : gray iris (4a, 4b)
5 : blue-gray iris with yellow/brown spots
6 : gray-green iris with yellow/brown spots
7 : green iris
8 : green iris with yellow/brown spots
9-10-11 : light-brown and hazel iris
12-13 : medium brown iris
14-15-16 : dark-brown and black iris
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin...3Schultz_scale
An image of it:

Now, if to you numbers 13, 12 or 11 aren't brown eyes, I don't know what to say. 14 is already dark brown.
The word ''pure'' in such statistics itself bothers me. It's really probably dark brown eyes by the Martin-Schultz scale they counted as ''pure brown''.

[Grace O'Malley]

Random google generated images of Camogie teams which is the female equivalent of hurling.

https://www.google.com/search?q=iris...ih=639#imgrc=_

Waterford Camogie team

[Knight Slayer]

It is either you don't know how to compare colours ( get tutored) or you just made a mistake. The Irish are as a whole for a fact lighter and bluer-eyed than the English and other British groups. The Harvard University study done by anthropologists working in conjunction with the governments of both Ireland and Northern Ireland on approximately 10,000 people from all over the country found the overall percentage for pure dark eyes or pure brown eyes to be 0.5%. This was an astonishment for them too. The vast majority of the Irish people have light or mixed eye colours. Yes, obviously the Keltic Nordid phenotype would be more "pure" in Ireland due to less admixture with Romans or other invaders after the Kelts!
In skin colour, the Irish I could say have a "whiter" complexion than most Southern Europeans. Thus it would hard to find a purely Mediterranean type. According to Harvard University study, slightly less than 33 persons out of 10,000 fit the pure Mediterranean. So we can erase the Med myth altogether.
The North-Atlantid type is already a predominantly Nordid type, it is only darker-haired than other Nordid types, but skin complexion is pale and eyes are light especially blue.

The North-Atlantid type is only a Nordic type by Lundman. To all the other authors it was a variant of the Atlanto-Mediterranean race.

[Septentrion]

The North-Atlantid type is only a Nordic type by Lundman. To all the other authors it was a variant of the Atlanto-Mediterranean race.

Get your fact straight, dude. Lundman is not the only one. The North-Atlantid is a predominantly Nordid, the Atlanto-Mediterranid in it is already weakened due to the Atlantid being already an intermediate type. This is why the North-Atlantid is not Mediterranean!!

North-Atlantid = Keltic Nordid + Atlantid (Predominantly Nordid)
Atlantid = Keltic Nordid/Nordid + Atlanto-Mediterranid (intermediate)
Atlanto-Mediterranid = Prevalently Mediterranid

[Septentrion]

And you are not a professional either. They had a larger sample - no doubt.
I already clarified my scale in the OP - the Martin-Schultz scale:
1-2 : blue iris (1a, 1b, 1c, 2a : light blue iris - 2b : darker blue iris)
3 : blue-gray iris
4 : gray iris (4a, 4b)
5 : blue-gray iris with yellow/brown spots
6 : gray-green iris with yellow/brown spots
7 : green iris
8 : green iris with yellow/brown spots
9-10-11 : light-brown and hazel iris
12-13 : medium brown iris
14-15-16 : dark-brown and black iris
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin...3Schultz_scale
An image of it:

Now, if to you numbers 13, 12 or 11 aren't brown eyes, I don't know what to say. 14 is already dark brown.
The word ''pure'' in such statistics itself bothers me. It's really probably dark brown eyes by the Martin-Schultz scale they counted as ''pure brown''.

I can really tell that you are amateur. Don't ever compare yourself to the Harvard Department of Anthropology. The scale you posted above is not the original Martin scale in the first place!!! In the original scale, the numbers are reversed. It goes as the following:

Light and Light-mixed (16 - 9)
16: light blue iris
15-14-13 : blue iris
12-11 : light gray iris
10-9 : dark gray iris
Mixed (8-7)
8 : green iris
9 : green-brown iris
Dark-mixed (6 - 5)
6 : hazel iris
5 : light brown iris
Dark (4 - 1)
4 : brown iris
3 - 2 : dark brown iris
1 : black-brown iris

As a whole, slightly less than 0.5% of the Irish men studied had pure brown eyes (dark brown, dark - light brown, light brown) according to the original Martin scale. Only four Irish counties were found to have more than 1% for pure brown.

[The Blade]

I can really tell that you are amateur. Don't ever compare yourself to the Harvard Department of Anthropology. The scale you posted above is not the original Martin scale in the first place!!! In the original scale, the numbers are reversed. It goes as the following:

Light and Light-mixed (16 - 9)
16: light blue iris
15-14-13 : blue iris
12-11 : light gray iris
10-9 : dark gray iris
Mixed (8-7)
8 : green iris
9 : green-brown iris
Dark-mixed (6 - 5)
6 : hazel iris
5 : light brown iris
Dark (4 - 1)
4 : brown iris
3 - 2 : dark brown iris
1 : black-brown iris

As a whole, slightly less than 0.5% of the Irish men studied had pure brown eyes (dark brown, dark - light brown, light brown) according to the original Martin scale. Only four Irish counties were found to have more than 1% for pure brown.

You are not only an amateur but also unnecessarily stubborn and unsynchronized in studies you post.
First learn what you are talking about and then carefully read what others are saying.
You are posting the Martin scale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_scale
I was pretty clear both in my responses to you and in my original post that I use the later Martin-Schultz scale Rudolf Martin created in cooperation with Dr. Bruno Kurt Schultz:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin...3Schultz_scale
I said:
''To estimate the eye colours distribution I used the Martin-Schultz scale. Green eyes with brown spots when green dominates I count as light. Evenly mixed green-brown shades and such where brown dominates I consider hazel and don't count as light."
''I already clarified my scale in the OP - the Martin-Schultz scale:"
Not only this but the Martin-Schultz scale they cooperated in the creation of is still used nowadays and is considered a superior effort to the original one invented by Martin alone:
"The Martin scale is an older version of color scale commonly used in physical anthropology to establish more or less precisely the eye color of an individual; it was created by the anthropologist Martin in the first half of the 20th century. Later he improved this scale with cooperation of Dr. Schultz – the Martin-Schultz scale.
The original Martin scale, summarized below, consists of 16 colors (from light blue to dark brown-black) that correspond to the different eye colors observed in nature due to the amount of melanin in the iris. The numbering is reversed in order to match the Martin–Schultz scale, which is still used in biological anthropology."
So learn something and get your facts straight. 0,5% of brown eyes is ridiculous for any state in Europe - you really need to understand authors have different (sometimes dramatically different) perceptions of what is ''dark''. I'm sure that if nowadays professionals conduct a study of the Irish (with clear criteria) the results will make you forget about these 0,5% of brown eyes.

[Knight Slayer]

Get your fact straight, dude. Lundman is not the only one. The North-Atlantid is a predominantly Nordid, the Atlanto-Mediterranid in it is already weakened due to the Atlantid being already an intermediate type. This is why the North-Atlantid is not Mediterranean!!

North-Atlantid = Keltic Nordid + Atlantid (Predominantly Nordid)
Atlantid = Keltic Nordid/Nordid + Atlanto-Mediterranid (intermediate)
Atlanto-Mediterranid = Prevalently Mediterranid

Keltic-Nordic was Coon's term in TROE 1939 that was a mix of Mediterranean, Nordic, and Dinaric.

North-Atlantid is a term from Lundman that was taken from Deniker's North-Western, which itself was a altered Atlanto-Mediterranean. Lundman interpreted the North-Atlantid as being a mix of Nordic and Gracile-Mediterranean. It has nothing to do with Keltic-Nordics.

Atlantid is a term from von Eickstedt's 1935 publication Die Mediterranen in Wales where it was described as a Mediterranean British Isles type.

My thread below contains good information on the Northwestern, Keltic, and Nordic-Mediterranean types. Note Keltic is a Hooton term and not the same thing as Keltic-Nordic.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...d-Keltic-types

[Septentrion]

You are not only an amateur but also unnecessarily stubborn and unsynchronized in studies you post.
First learn what you are talking about and then carefully read what others are saying.
You are posting the Martin scale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_scale
I was pretty clear both in my responses to you and in my original post that I use the later Martin-Schultz scale Rudolf Martin created in cooperation with Dr. Bruno Kurt Schultz:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin...3Schultz_scale
I said:
''To estimate the eye colours distribution I used the Martin-Schultz scale. Green eyes with brown spots when green dominates I count as light. Evenly mixed green-brown shades and such where brown dominates I consider hazel and don't count as light."
''I already clarified my scale in the OP - the Martin-Schultz scale:"
Not only this but the Martin-Schultz scale they cooperated in the creation of is still used nowadays and is considered a superior effort to the original one invented by Martin alone:
"The Martin scale is an older version of color scale commonly used in physical anthropology to establish more or less precisely the eye color of an individual; it was created by the anthropologist Martin in the first half of the 20th century. Later he improved this scale with cooperation of Dr. Schultz – the Martin-Schultz scale.
The original Martin scale, summarized below, consists of 16 colors (from light blue to dark brown-black) that correspond to the different eye colors observed in nature due to the amount of melanin in the iris. The numbering is reversed in order to match the Martin–Schultz scale, which is still used in biological anthropology."
So learn something and get your facts straight. 0,5% of brown eyes is ridiculous for any state in Europe - you really need to understand authors have different (sometimes dramatically different) perceptions of what is ''dark''. I'm sure that if nowadays professionals conduct a study of the Irish (with clear criteria) the results will make you forget about these 0,5% of brown eyes.

Rubbish! Dude! Rubbish! You did not use the original Martin scale. The Harvard study would be many thousands times more credible than yours and much representative from all regions of that respective country. Yes 0.5% for pure brown eyes!!!

[The Blade]

Rubbish! Dude! Rubbish! You did not use the original Martin scale. The Harvard study would be many thousands times more credible than yours and much representative from all regions of that respective country. Yes 0.5% for pure brown eyes!!!

You lack the ability to concentrate, it seems. Martin himself participated in the creation of scale I use, together with Schultz. I consider our talk (cannot really call it a discussion as you lowered its quality) over. You also lack critical thinking. Goodbye!

[Septentrion]

Keltic-Nordic was Coon's term in TROE 1939 that was a mix of Mediterranean, Nordic, and Dinaric.

North-Atlantid is a term from Lundman that was taken from Deniker's North-Western, which itself was a altered Atlanto-Mediterranean. Lundman interpreted the North-Atlantid as being a mix of Nordic and Gracile-Mediterranean. It has nothing to do with Keltic-Nordics.

Atlantid is a term from von Eickstedt's 1935 publication Die Mediterranen in Wales where it was described as a Mediterranean British Isles type.

My thread below contains good information on the Northwestern, Keltic, and Nordic-Mediterranean types. Note Keltic is a Hooton term and not the same thing as Keltic-Nordic.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...d-Keltic-types

The North-Atlantic might have some Atlanto-Med strains diluted from the Atlantid, however it is primarily Nordid.