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Thread: The Reason Ottoman Sultans Weren't Very Turkish

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chelubey View Post
    Perhaps Armenians spoke Türkic language until they switched to Armenian language.
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    Turkish ottomans had a thing for foreign beauties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigranes View Post


    The Ottoman Empire ruled over what is now Turkey and a large portion of the eastern Mediterranean world from 1299 until 1923. The rulers, or sultans, of the Ottoman Empire had their paternal roots in Oghuz Turks of Central Asia, also known as the Turkmen.

    The History of Concubine Mothers
    However, most of the sultans' mothers were concubines from the royal harem — and most of the concubines were from non-Turkic, usually non-Muslim parts of the empire. Much like the boys in the Janissary corps, most concubines in the Ottoman Empire were technically members of the slave class. The Quran forbids the enslavement of fellow Muslims, so the concubines were from Christian or Jewish families in Greece or the Caucasus, or were prisoners of war from further afield. Some residents of the harem were official wives, as well, who might be noblewomen from Christian nations, married to the sultan as part of diplomatic negotiations.

    Although many of the mothers were slaves, they could amass incredible political power if one of their sons became the sultan. As valide sultan, or Mother Sultan, a concubine often served as de facto ruler in the name of her young or incompetent son.

    Ottoman Royal Genealogy
    The Ottoman royal genealogy begins with Osman I (r. 1299 - 1326), both of whose parents were Turks. The next sultan likewise was 100% Turkic, but beginning with the third sultan, Murad I, the sultans' mothers (or valide sultan) were not of Central Asian origins. Murad I (r. 1362 - 1389) was 50% Turkish. Bayezid I's mother was Greek, so he was 25% Turkish.

    The fifth sultan's mother was Oghuz, so he was 62.5% Turkish. Continuing in the fashion, Suleiman the Magnificent, the tenth sultan, had about 24% Turkish blood.

    According to our calculations, by the time we get to the 36th and final sultan of the Ottoman Empire, Mehmed VI (r. 1918 - 1922), the Oghuz blood was so diluted that he was only about 0.195% Turkic. All of those generations of mothers from Greece, Poland, Venice, Russia, France, and beyond really drowned out the sultans' genetic roots on the steppes of Central Asia.

    List of Ottoman Sultans and their Mothers' Ethnicities
    1. Osman I, Turkish
    2. Orhan, Turkish
    3. Murad I, Greek
    4. Bayezid I, Greek
    5. Mehmed I, Turkish
    6. Murad II, Turkish
    7. Mehmed II, Turkish
    8. Bayezid II, Turkish
    9. Selim I, Greek
    10. Suleiman I, Greek
    11. Selim II, Polish
    12. Murad III, Italian (Venetian)
    13. Mehmed III, Italian (Venetian)
    14. Ahmed I, Greek
    15. Mustafa I, Abkhazian
    16. Osman II, Greek or Serbian (?)
    17. Murad IV, Greek
    18. Ibrahim, Greek
    19. Mehmed IV, Ukrainian
    20. Suleiman II, Serbian
    21. Ahmed II, Polish
    22. Mustafa II, Greek
    23. Ahmed III, Greek
    24. Mahmud I, Greek
    25. Osman III, Serbian
    26. Mustafa III, French
    27. Abdulhamid I, Hungarian
    28. Selim III, Georgian
    29. Mustafa IV, Bulgarian
    30. Mahmud II, Georgian
    31. Abdulmecid I, Georgian or Russian (?)
    32. Abdulaziz I, Romanian
    33. Murad V, Georgian
    34. Abdulhamid II, Circassian
    35. Mehmed V, Albanian
    36. Mehmed VI, Georgian


    https://www.thoughtco.com/ottoman-su...turkish-195760
    Its not only this,ottoman sultan suleyman the magnificent and selim 1 made fun of Turkish peasantry.
    Hamid celebi, member of the imperial porte sang an anti turk poem which was very famous.

    Also,most of Ottoman army,generals, viziers were non Turks.

    Janissaries-ottoman infantry, artillery men, gunpowder unit-non turk balkanites
    Ottoman elite heavy cavalry and king's guard- kapikulu sipahi-non turk balkanites enrolled through devshirme.
    Ottoman regular cavalry- a mix of balkanites and anatolians.
    In balkan and european wars, which were main decisive ottoman wars,most of the regular medium cavalry was balkanite again.
    Ottoman auxillaries-again balkanite,Russian, egyptian mercenaries .

    Only unit of ottoman force which was truly turkic were the akincis,and akincis were only good for raiding against civilians because rheir arrows were ineffective against heavy Armor of European Christian forces.

    The main winning component of ottoman army were the janissaries, kapikulu elite heavy cavalry (which won the battle of Varna).
    Ottoman regular sipahi cavalry played a role but it wasn't decisive and even Majority of regular sipahis were enrolled from Balkan provinces.

    Ottoman Empire was an Empire built on the religion of islam,wirh Persian culture,With Balkan troops and generals.
    How do kemalist turkic Nationalists and turanists take pride in such an Empire that called Turks "esek turk" and etral-i-bi-idrak?

    Hamid celebi,the supreme ottoman officer man fun of turkic peasantry And lifestyle as being uncivilized.

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    In the movie Suleiman the Magnificent, the Turkish series, the Sultana is Russian, she is the main wife of the Sultan, has sons with him and has incredible political power he kills his sons with another wife.
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    Sultans were marrying many women, and there were also women of other races in their harems. Some sultans even had siblings from 40 step-mom.

    and tbh i think 2. abdulhamid's biologic mother is armenian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
    Its not only this,ottoman sultan suleyman the magnificent and selim 1 made fun of Turkish peasantry.
    Hamid celebi, member of the imperial porte sang an anti turk poem which was very famous.

    Also,most of Ottoman army,generals, viziers were non Turks.

    Janissaries-ottoman infantry, artillery men, gunpowder unit-non turk balkanites
    Ottoman elite heavy cavalry and king's guard- kapikulu sipahi-non turk balkanites enrolled through devshirme.
    Ottoman regular cavalry- a mix of balkanites and anatolians.
    In balkan and european wars, which were main decisive ottoman wars,most of the regular medium cavalry was balkanite again.
    Ottoman auxillaries-again balkanite,Russian, egyptian mercenaries .

    Only unit of ottoman force which was truly turkic were the akincis,and akincis were only good for raiding against civilians because rheir arrows were ineffective against heavy Armor of European Christian forces.

    The main winning component of ottoman army were the janissaries, kapikulu elite heavy cavalry (which won the battle of Varna).
    Ottoman regular sipahi cavalry played a role but it wasn't decisive and even Majority of regular sipahis were enrolled from Balkan provinces.

    Ottoman Empire was an Empire built on the religion of islam,wirh Persian culture,With Balkan troops and generals.
    How do kemalist turkic Nationalists and turanists take pride in such an Empire that called Turks "esek turk" and etral-i-bi-idrak?

    Hamid celebi,the supreme ottoman officer man fun of turkic peasantry And lifestyle as being uncivilized.
    Yeah yeah all of the Ottoman army were not the Turks...And of course we are not Turks lol..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    That's bollocks...

    It's not about refusing to mix or not because all those slave mothers of the Sultans didn't want to be slaves in the first place but ended up being and I doubt that the Turks cared much about the Armenians willing to mix or not but I am sure a great number of Armenians ended up as slaves, particularly in the Sultan's harem.

    Now why there is no Armenian mother of a Sultan?
    Probably they weren't that attractive to Turks as the European girls were, not much changed since then I would say!
    they had their preferences caucasian (circassian russian) they had tons of slaves from south europeans (including from barbary slaves trades) they were just workers none of them ended in a harem

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