Does this guy have Southern European ancestry?

[Kaspias]

Some calc results showed an eastern balkan shift, so I was confused. The oracles are really inconsistent here. Most others I see show pretty consistent results.

Can you give the kit number so i can check matches?

[thracian_bro]

Can you give the kit number so i can check matches?

I'll DM

[Kaspias]

Honestly, i hadn't expected to see Balkan shift but indeed there is in some calculators. Person seems 3/4 British and 1/4 Eastern Balkanite in PuntDNAL, MDLP and Gedrosia, even 50-50 in some, but Eurogenes, Dodecad and Harappa gives 100% British-NW European.

I have checked your first 1000 match and couldn't find any Balkan match. Very interesting.

[thracian_bro]

Honestly, i hadn't expected to see Balkan shift but indeed there is in some calculators. Person seems 3/4 British and 1/4 Eastern Balkanite in PuntDNAL, MDLP and Gedrosia, even 50-50 in some, but Eurogenes, Dodecad and Harappa gives 100% British-NW European.

I have checked your first 1000 match and couldn't find any Balkan match. Very interesting.

Such a strange kit. I've been messing around with different kits from different regions to see how consistent their results are to this one, and I've haven't seen one like this before. Weird.

[Mr.G]

Perhaps he does, but it seems to be very distant. I'll use my mom as an example why I think that..

Here is my mom's K13, she is mostly German with some British Isles, and North Italian pops up in the 4-way. Some of the German may be Tyrol, but there are no Italian names in the pretty big family tree my uncle has developed.

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
1 Danish + North_German + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 0.597499
2 Danish + South_Dutch + West_German + West_German @ 0.605395
3 North_Dutch + West_German + West_German + West_German @ 0.680342
4 North_Dutch + North_German + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 0.682294
5 French + North_German + North_German + West_German @ 0.694267
6 Danish + North_Dutch + North_Italian + Swedish @ 0.726361
7 Danish + Danish + North_Italian + Swedish @ 0.740436
8 North_Dutch + South_Dutch + West_German + West_German @ 0.770897
9 North_German + South_Dutch + South_Dutch + West_German @ 0.816153
10 French + North_German + North_German + South_Dutch @ 0.838880
11 Danish + West_German + West_German + West_German @ 0.843199
12 Danish + Danish + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 0.859201
13 Danish + French + North_German + West_German @ 0.866293
14 Danish + South_Dutch + South_Dutch + West_German @ 0.895035
15 Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 0.901913
16 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + North_Italian + Swedish @ 0.917834
17 North_German + North_Italian + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 0.929330
18 Norwegian + West_German + West_German + West_German @ 0.932062
19 Norwegian + South_Dutch + West_German + West_German @ 0.969550
20 Danish + North_Dutch + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 0.970751

I have noticed that many Gedmatch calcs seem to be very robust, stretching a little bit the possibilities. My best fit on K13 is Orcadian and Serbian, stretches me a bit too thin.

Here is my mom's 2-way puntDNAL K10, there are some indicators for a southern or eastern influence, but it must be very distant, over 150 years ago:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.4% German_South + 25.6% Hungarian @ 0.88
2 77.1% German_South + 22.9% Irish @ 1.12
3 99% German_South + 1% Mayan @ 1.12
4 89.8% Utahn_white + 10.2% Italian_South @ 1.13
5 99.1% German_South + 0.9% Pima @ 1.13
6 99.1% German_South + 0.9% Karitiana @ 1.13
7 70% Scottish_West + 30% Tuscan @ 1.13
8 57.7% German_South + 42.3% Croatian @ 1.13
9 99.1% German_South + 0.9% Bolivian @ 1.13
10 85.3% Hungarian + 14.7% Basque_Spanish @ 1.14
11 89.2% Utahn_white + 10.8% Tuscan @ 1.15
12 99% German_South + 1% Bolivian @ 1.16
13 92.4% Utahn_white + 7.6% Sicilian @ 1.18
14 94% Utahn_white + 6% Sephardic_Jew @ 1.19
15 80.7% English_South + 19.3% Tuscan @ 1.2
16 97.6% German_South + 2.4% Lezgin @ 1.2
17 88.7% Utahn_white + 11.3% Albanian @ 1.2
18 61.4% Irish + 38.6% French @ 1.22
19 68.6% Scottish_West + 31.4% Albanian @ 1.23
20 92.4% Utahn_white + 7.6% Ashkenazi_Jew @ 1.23

[Pine]

When his South European does appear, it appears in presence of North European, like Danish. It may just be balancing it out.

[thracian_bro]

Perhaps he does, but it seems to be very distant. I'll use my mom as an example why I think that..

Here is my mom's K13, she is mostly German with some British Isles, and North Italian pops up in the 4-way. Some of the German may be Tyrol, but there are no Italian names in the pretty big family tree my uncle has developed.

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
1 Danish + North_German + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 0.597499
2 Danish + South_Dutch + West_German + West_German @ 0.605395
3 North_Dutch + West_German + West_German + West_German @ 0.680342
4 North_Dutch + North_German + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 0.682294
5 French + North_German + North_German + West_German @ 0.694267
6 Danish + North_Dutch + North_Italian + Swedish @ 0.726361
7 Danish + Danish + North_Italian + Swedish @ 0.740436
8 North_Dutch + South_Dutch + West_German + West_German @ 0.770897
9 North_German + South_Dutch + South_Dutch + West_German @ 0.816153
10 French + North_German + North_German + South_Dutch @ 0.838880
11 Danish + West_German + West_German + West_German @ 0.843199
12 Danish + Danish + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 0.859201
13 Danish + French + North_German + West_German @ 0.866293
14 Danish + South_Dutch + South_Dutch + West_German @ 0.895035
15 Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 0.901913
16 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + North_Italian + Swedish @ 0.917834
17 North_German + North_Italian + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 0.929330
18 Norwegian + West_German + West_German + West_German @ 0.932062
19 Norwegian + South_Dutch + West_German + West_German @ 0.969550
20 Danish + North_Dutch + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 0.970751

I have noticed that many Gedmatch calcs seem to be very robust, stretching a little bit the possibilities. My best fit on K13 is Orcadian and Serbian, stretches me a bit too thin.

Here is my mom's 2-way puntDNAL K10, there are some indicators for a southern or eastern influence, but it must be very distant, over 150 years ago:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.4% German_South + 25.6% Hungarian @ 0.88
2 77.1% German_South + 22.9% Irish @ 1.12
3 99% German_South + 1% Mayan @ 1.12
4 89.8% Utahn_white + 10.2% Italian_South @ 1.13
5 99.1% German_South + 0.9% Pima @ 1.13
6 99.1% German_South + 0.9% Karitiana @ 1.13
7 70% Scottish_West + 30% Tuscan @ 1.13
8 57.7% German_South + 42.3% Croatian @ 1.13
9 99.1% German_South + 0.9% Bolivian @ 1.13
10 85.3% Hungarian + 14.7% Basque_Spanish @ 1.14
11 89.2% Utahn_white + 10.8% Tuscan @ 1.15
12 99% German_South + 1% Bolivian @ 1.16
13 92.4% Utahn_white + 7.6% Sicilian @ 1.18
14 94% Utahn_white + 6% Sephardic_Jew @ 1.19
15 80.7% English_South + 19.3% Tuscan @ 1.2
16 97.6% German_South + 2.4% Lezgin @ 1.2
17 88.7% Utahn_white + 11.3% Albanian @ 1.2
18 61.4% Irish + 38.6% French @ 1.22
19 68.6% Scottish_West + 31.4% Albanian @ 1.23
20 92.4% Utahn_white + 7.6% Ashkenazi_Jew @ 1.23

That could be very possible. Here's his puntdnal K10 two way for reference: 1 72.6% German_North + 27.4% Tuscan @ 0.74
2 74% German_North + 26% Italian_South @ 0.76
3 95.4% German_South + 4.6% Lezgin @ 0.83
4 84.4% Utahn_white + 15.6% Albanian @ 0.85
5 84.9% Utahn_white + 15.1% Greek @ 0.86
6 92.5% Utahn_white + 7.5% Cypriot @ 0.88
7 79.7% German_North + 20.3% Sicilian @ 0.88
8 89.5% Utahn_white + 10.5% Ashkenazi_Jew @ 0.94
9 95.2% German_South + 4.8% Chechen @ 0.97
10 91.9% Utahn_white + 8.1% Sephardic_Jew @ 0.99
11 95.1% German_South + 4.9% Kumyk @ 0.99
12 93.5% Utahn_white + 6.5% Lebanese @ 1.01
13 95.7% German_South + 4.3% North_Ossetian @ 1.02
14 90.6% German_North + 9.4% BedouinB @ 1.04
15 85.6% Utahn_white + 14.4% Tuscan @ 1.05
16 96.5% German_South + 3.5% Abkhasian @ 1.06
17 93.8% Utahn_white + 6.2% Palestinian @ 1.07
18 94.2% Utahn_white + 5.8% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.08
19 89.8% Utahn_white + 10.2% Sicilian @ 1.08
20 76.5% Utahn_white + 23.5% Bulgarian @ 1.09

Though if it was from 150 years ago, why would it appear in quantities over 6%? Also for someone who's mother is British and German, her results don't fall in line with other British/German kits I've compare to so she may be unorthodox and have ancestry she may not know about.

[thracian_bro]

When his South European does appear, it appears in presence of North European, like Danish. It may just be balancing it out.

Also very possible. Like when Serbia and Croatia appear in K15, they do so in the presence of France and North Germany. I believe he's mixed though so it's hard to tell if its calculator error or genuine mixing. If they're mostly NW European I expected more uniform NW European result like most others I see, but it wasn't the case.

[Pine]

Also very possible. Like when Serbia and Croatia appear in K15, they do so in the presence of France and North Germany. I believe he's mixed though so it's hard to tell if its calculator error or genuine mixing. If they're mostly NW European I expected more uniform NW European result like most others I see, but it wasn't the case.

Is he of one ethnic group? He may have just inherited the variables used in the model in an atypical way, where it's easier to model half of him as northern + southern ethnicity, instead of his middle range (I'm assuming British) ethnicity. Does he plot outside the 95% range of his ethnic group?

[nittionia]

My grandma isn't southern euro but she gets Balkan, Turkish, etc. in oracles. I think it's just balancing it out.