"Whoever speaks of Europe is wrong, Europe is but a geographical expression." Discuss.

[Tooting Carmen]

So said Bismarck. Was he right or wrong?

[Adamastor]

There is a European race and a European cluster. Bismarck was wrong. I agree that there are different European cultures, but there's something approaching a ''race'' that is European.

[Tooting Carmen]

There is a European race and a European cluster. Bismarck was wrong. I agree that there are different European cultures, but there's something approaching a ''race'' that is European.

But is there a European language and a European polity? And on that basis, should the Japanese, Koreans and Chinese think of each other as being the same too?

[Smeagol]

There's not really a European race either, many Southern Europeans are genetically closer to Middle Easterners than Northern Europeans. They're all part of the Caucasoid Race though.

[Tooting Carmen]

There's not really a European race either, many Southern Europeans are genetically closer to Middle Easterners than Northern Europeans. They're all part of the Caucasoid Race though.

True. The real issue, however, is whether or not there is something called a European polity or nation, and whether or not European political and economic unification is based on something deeper and truly legitimate?

[Smeagol]

True. The real issue, however, is whether or not there is something called a European polity or nation, and whether or not European political and economic unification is based on something deeper and truly legitimate?

There isn't. I can understand something like pan-Germanism or pan-Slavism, but not pan-Europeanism. That said, all individual European nations should be preserved.

[Creoda]

There's not really a European race either, many Southern Europeans are genetically closer to Middle Easterners than Northern Europeans. They're all part of the Caucasoid Race though.

There is a European race, it's just that many Southern Europeans are heavily mixed with West Asians.

[Adamastor]

There's not really a European race either, many Southern Europeans are genetically closer to Middle Easterners than Northern Europeans. They're all part of the Caucasoid Race though.

No. Only fringe groups are closer to West Asians than to Northern Europeans.

Most Southern Europeans live in Iberia, Balkans, Greek mainland and Northern Italy.

[MinervaItalica]

Nations in Europe are too different (apart from religion perhaps) and most of the time fight each other.

It's useless trying to unify the continent. Everyone has its own interests.

[Tooting Carmen]

There isn't. I can understand something like pan-Germanism or pan-Slavism, but not pan-Europeanism. That said, all individual European nations should be preserved.

I don't know if it is just my imagination, but I have noticed many forum users (including yourself) are much more apprehensive and ambivalent about European unification and integration - whether as an ideal or a reality - than a few years ago. (The Lawspeaker in particular is much more anti-integration than he was in his first stint in this forum).