Viking world population genomics

[SharpFork]

I think the maps show the ancestry of the Viking era samples tested, represented by black dots.

IMO these maps sadly have nothing to do with the DNA of the current population of these locations.

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As for the issue of British/Irish gene flow to Norway vs. Norwegian gene flow to Britain/Ireland:

In absolute numbers, I'm quite sure more people migrated from Norway to Ireland and Britain than the other way around.

HOWEVER, at that time Norway was very sparsely populated and had a very small population compared to the British Isles.

So the overall impact of the gene flow, percentage-wise, could actually be stronger in Scandinavia than in Britain/Ireland.

Example: 500 people moving from Ireland to Norway could make a stronger impact in DNA than 3000 people migrating from Norway to Ireland.

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Let's use a modern example too, who would make more impact on overall genetics of the other country?:

- 3 million Swedes moving to Nigeria

OR:

- 1 million Nigerians moving to Sweden

^^^ The answer is obvious, you just need to compare the size of native populations in both countries.

You are incredibly exaggerating the population difference between Scandinavia and the British isles. At best it's a 3 time population difference, same goes for Ireland and Norway. So actuatelly 3000 people would have 2 times the impact, if everything else is equal.

[Adamastor]

I'll look into it later, but apparently the ''explanations'' given in the OP are part of Peterski's obsession of denying any Germanic genetic and cultural exclusiveness and transforming all Germanic peoples in mongrelized Poles.

[Peterski]

You are incredibly exaggerating the population difference between Scandinavia and the British isles. At best it's a 3 time population difference, same goes for Ireland and Norway. So actuatelly 3000 people would have 2 times the impact, if everything else is equal.

Population size of Scandinavia around year 1 AD (source: estimates by Angus Maddison):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ermanic-Tribes

Denmark - 180,000
Sweden - 200,000
Norway - 100,000

Sure, 500 years later it was certainly more, but still much less than Britain and Ireland.

[Voskos]

When are these R1a dated? R1a CTS1211 is very common in albania and greece.

[SharpFork]

Population size of Scandinavia around year 1 AD (source: estimates by Angus Maddison):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ermanic-Tribes

Denmark - 180,000
Sweden - 200,000
Norway - 100,000

Sure, 500 years later it was certainly more, but still much less than Britain and Ireland.

The data Grace brought up gives for Denmark a population 2.5 times larger, same goes for 1000 AD data. In any case it would be hard for the British isles to have more than 3 million people in 800AD, probably as low as 2 million even.

[MagnusDark]

I been saying Z280/M458 would pop up. Some of the later ones were probably Varangian guard from Kievan Rus.

[Peterski]

Funen island (Denmark), one man is autosomally Polish (this is consistent with historical records and existence of Slavic toponyms on the island), he has R1a-L1029:

I been saying Z280/M458 would pop up. Some of the later ones were probably Varangian guard from Kievan Rus.

But these samples are autosomally Slavic.

[MagnusDark]

But these samples are autosomally Slavic.

Doesn’t matter. They participated in the same Viking raids. One was from the Varangian era too. You forget a lot of Vikings in Byzantium were incorporated from Kievan Rus. They were not homogeneous when it comes to those who participated in raids.

It illustrates my point that lineages were absorbed and moved with different cultures. Opposite the tunnel vision approach most have for how these lines moved around.

[Aren]

Were people really surprised that there would be foreigners among the Vikings?

Instead of discussing how many outliers and where they were from I'm more interested in the BA > IA > Viking Age transition in Southern Scandinavia and whether the Scandinavian regions could be differentiated autosomally by the early Viking Age.

[MagnusDark]

Let’s wait until we get gedmatch kits for this guys. Litvinski you’re pretty good with posting those kits as they become available so please update this thread if you get a hold of them.