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Thread: Eye and hair colour distribution among 958 Italians

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    Default Eye and hair colour distribution among 958 Italians

    Following my threads for Dutch men (will soon do one about females, too), English and Irish people (covering both sexes in these cases), here is the analogical thread for Italy. Before sharing the results, I have some things to say:
    1) During my membership here I've seen Italians both heavily nordified and darkwashed on The Apricity. The two tendencies coexisted in 2016 and 2017 but the second one (of portraying them as MUCH darker than they are) has been clearly dominating the forum for about 2 years now. I am indifferent to Italians in general and thus you will see in this survey a much more realistic picture than that given by people portraying them as either on par with Scandinavians or with Lebanese. I apologize to Italian members for this kind of intro which I know is useless to them and tells them nothing new, but I find it appropriate for some people prone to believe everything someone says and for those who like to speak trash about other states (yes, I mean the supposedly German troll with several accounts here and his spamming against certain European nations; Silver Lining, Golden Lining, Flighttime, etc., I mean you).
    2) My method of collecting the samples needed to become a little more complex in this survey, since, unlike previous countries I made threads of, Italy has both large area and population.
    Seeing the population statistics for the three major regions the country can be divided into, I realized the most accurate proportion for my males survey would be if I include:
    - 13 football clubs from Northern Italy
    - 6 teams from Central Italy
    - 10 clubs from Southern Italy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Italy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Italy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy
    However, Southern Italian clubs had more native Italian players than those from the central and northern areas of the state and after covering 29 clubs, I had 210 players from Northern Italian teams, 206 from Southern Italian ones and 106 from the central area. Therefore, I excluded the teams of Reggina and Benevento from Southern Italy who combined had 43 athletes and to reflect real proportions as accurately as possible I left Southern Italian players with the number of 163. I realize there are, of course, people competing for clubs from regions other than their native one but the ratios would be similar, I believe, so I don't think this has heavily (if at all) affected the statistics.
    I excluded all naturalized players of Sub-Saharan African descent. On the contrary, I included two Argentinian-born players of (predominantly) Italian descent - Federico Fazio of Roma and Mauro Icardi of Inter.
    My statistics for males is based on all clubs from Serie A, Serie B teams such as Perugia, Palermo, Foggia, Pescara, Crotone and Cosenza, + the team of Bari.
    https://www.worldfootball.net/player...e-a-2018-2019/
    https://www.worldfootball.net/player...e-b-2018-2019/
    https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ssc-bari/2019/2/
    The 43 players I excluded, so as to keep ratio as close to reality as possible, had lowered the light eyes frequency with 0,52% and increased the dark hair rate with about 3%. Might not be much but I wanted to be really precise and I think this is the correct approach.
    3) On the other hand, I didn't base my survey of females on athletes, since ladies volleyball and football clubs seem to strongly hail from Northern and Central Italy and the south would have been misrepresented. I didn't want to lightwash Italians either. My study of Italian women includes 318 actresses (I only included living ones), 141 singers, 19 showgirls and randomly picked Carla Bruni to reach 479 - the same number as that of males. These women were much more variable in their geographic origin within the country and represented the north-centre-south ratio much better than female athletes would have.
    Here are my sources I based my females survey on:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_actresses
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...female_singers
    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...astri#mw-pages
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...lian_showgirls
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carla_Bruni
    On the female singers list you won't see Cristina Scabbia (vocalist of one of my favourite metal bands Lacuna Coil, along with Andrea Ferro) but I counted her, too:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristina_Scabbia
    I excluded all naturalized Italian actresses and singers of fully foreign descent (West Slavic, French, Swiss German, Tunisian), as well as Italian women of partly Sub-Saharan African (two of Eritrean, one of Somali and one of Senegalese) origin.
    I included several (they were 15 at most and most of them are actresses) women who were 1/2 Italian mixed with Portuguese, Swedish, German, Greek, Montenegrin, Swiss, West Slavic, Iranian, Tunisian and Moroccan.
    The 1/2 Moroccan is singer Malika Ayane and the partly Tunisian one is Ilaria Spada.
    I allowed myself to include these two, since:
    1) they are both fully Caucasoid
    2) I saw several footballers from Southern (and to a lesser extent Central) Italy with similar characteristics
    Here I want to clarify one thing in advance. Among the 958 individuals my survey covers 9 (5 men and 4 women) have black eyes. Ayane and Spada aren't among them. All 9 have no known foreign ancestry. I clarify this, so as to avoid unjust claims of darkwashing Italians.
    4) I would like to kindly (but firmly) ask some members not to turn this thread into another Italo-Spanish war. If forum users of either state start a trash talk about the other country, I'll ask moderators to delete their comments.
    5) I used the Fischer–Saller scale for my hair colours survey. Colours A to O are what I and the authors count as blond.
    The numbers V and VI reflect reddish blond hair and affect both blondism and rufosity values. Deeper orange shades I also include as reddish blond.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fische...93Saller_scale
    Other colours I covered:
    - light brown
    - medium brown (including medium ash brown nuances)
    - dark brown (again including some dark ash brown forms)
    - black
    - reddish brown
    - pure red
    6) To estimate the eye colours distribution I used the Martin-Schultz scale. Green eyes with brown spots when green dominates I count as light. Evenly mixed green-brown shades and such where brown dominates I consider hazel and don't count as light.
    The Martin-Schultz scale includes:
    1-2 : blue iris (1a, 1b, 1c, 2a : light blue iris - 2b : darker blue iris)
    3 : blue-gray iris
    4 : gray iris (4a, 4b)
    5 : blue-gray iris with yellow/brown spots
    6 : gray-green iris with yellow/brown spots
    7 : green iris
    8 : green iris with yellow/brown spots
    9-10-11 : light-brown and hazel iris
    12-13 : medium brown iris
    14-15-16 : dark-brown and black iris
    My source:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin...3Schultz_scale
    Colours 1-8 I consider light. 9 is where non-light eyes begin for me.



    I start with the males' results. A total of 479 men. Here are the numbers of people with each eye/hair colour and the percentage it occupies within the sample.
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue – 82 (17,12%)
    Blue-green – 11 (2,3%)
    Blue-grey – 3 (0,63%)
    Grey-green – 29 (6,05%)
    Grey – 28 (5,85%)
    Green – 55 (11,48%)
    Brown – 165 (34,45%)
    Hazel – 101 (21,08%)
    Black – 5 (1,04%)
    Total amount of light eyes: 43,43% (208 individuals)
    Non-light eyes (brown, hazel & black): 56,57% (271 individuals)
    Blue and blue-mixed light eyes combined: 20,05% (96 men)
    Grey and grey-mixed light eyes total: 12,53% (60 men)
    Also, as a side note, I wanna say I can only despise people who judge about someone's achievements or value as a person based on eye or hair colour. Deeds matter, not such things.
    Hair colour distribution:
    Blond – 13 (2,71%)
    Reddish blond – 1 (0,21%)
    Red – 3 (0,62%)
    Reddish brown – 0
    Light brown – 18 (3,76%)
    Medium brown – 124 (25,89%)
    Medium ash brown – 32 (6,68%)
    Dark brown – 197 (41,13%)
    Dark ash brown – 42 (8,77%)
    Black – 49 (10,23%)
    Blond hair total: 2,92% (14 people)
    Total rufosity rate: 0,83% (4 individuals)
    Total brown hair frequency: 86,23% (413 men)
    Medium brown shades percentage (including the ashy tones): 32,57% (156 people)
    Dark brown shades (including ashy nuances): 49,9% (239 men)
    Dark hair (dark brown shades + black): 60,13% (288 men)

    Phenotypes I saw:
    1) The most important elements are Atlanto-Mediterranean, Gracile Mediterranean and Atlantid standing between the Atlanto-Mediterranean type and the Nordic ones. In the south the rate of Gracile Meds starts to increase.
    2) Dinaric and mixes of it with Atlanto-Mediterranean, Gracile Mediterranean and the Nordic forms. Dinaro-Med forms seem more common than Dinaro-Nordic ones. The latter can result in Norid or Keltoid forms and sometimes in even more complex Dinaricized Nordid types. In terms of cephalic and especially head length/head height index Italians seem to be the most diverse nation I have based a survey on so far, with Dinarics and Gracile Mediterraneans representing the opposite ends in both cases.
    3) Alpine.
    4) Upper Paleolithic survivors (chiefly Phalian and Borreby).
    5) What Biasutti and Cipriani dubbed Paleo-Sardinian and Lundman Berid - a mix of Littoral (Atlanto-Mediterranean, Cro-Magnon and Alpine elements).
    6) Paleo Atlantid.
    7) Armenoid. It seems fairly common in the south but I didn't see it among Central and Northern Italians.
    8) Nordic.
    9) East Mediterranean. This type seems most common in the south, less so in central areas and absent in northern regions.
    While both blondism and rufosity are rather rare among males, they exist from northernmost to southernmost areas of the state. With all of this said and with all my respect to Sikeliot (I hope he returns soon and everything's ok with him), I have never understood why he finds Italians (especially Southern ones) to be so different from Greeks. Their phenotypical mix is similar in most aspects and Greeks, as I have said many times, aren't really slavicized (Balkanites they share a border with have only a moderate amount of Slavic admixture and are as a whole a complex mix).
    Also, I think that the overlap between Italian (especially from the northern and central parts of the state) and Southern French people is underrated. I'm now doing France and we'll see how true this is.
    I made an additional statistics showing the ratio between light and dark/dark-mixed eyes in Italian regions based on football clubs mentioned above:
    Southern Italy (Cagliari, Napoli, Palermo, Bari, Foggia, Pescara, Crotone & Cosenza) – 163 people; 64 with light and 99 with dark/dark-mixed eyes – 39,26% vs. 60,74%
    Central Italy (Fiorentina, Roma, Empoli, Frosinone, Lazio & Perugia) – 106 people; 49 with light and 57 with dark/dark-mixed eyes – 46,23% vs. 53,77%
    Northern Italy (Milan, Atalanta, Bologna, Chievo, Genoa, Inter, Juventus, Parma, Sampdoria, Sassuolo, SPAL 2013 Ferrara, Torino & Udinese) – 210 people; 95 with light and 115 with dark/dark-mixed eyes – 45,24% vs. 54,76%
    The pigmentation difference isn't as huge as some portray it to be (even if we consider standard deviation).

    And now, the ladies' results. Several women had dyed their hair in lighter brown or blonde shades. 4 or 5 (I don't exactly remember) were naturally blonde dyeing their hair darker.
    Everyone is counted with natural shades, of course.
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue – 81 (16,91%)
    Blue-green – 11 (2,3%)
    Blue-grey – 12 (2,5%)
    Grey-green – 36 (7,52%)
    Grey – 45 (9,39%)
    Green – 45 (9,39%)
    Brown – 144 (30,06%)
    Hazel – 99 (20,67%)
    Black – 4 (0,84%)
    Grey-brown – 2 (0,42%) - two apparently unrelated women possessed the same central heterochromia trait of evenly mixed grey-brown eyes. I didn't count them as light because both colours were equally presented.
    Total light eyes rate: 48,01% (230 women)
    Total dark/dark-mixed eyes percentage: 51,99% (249 women)
    Blue and blue-mixed light eyes: 21,71% (104 women)
    Grey and grey-mixed light eyes: 19,41% (93 women)
    Hair colour distribution:
    Blonde – 59 (12,32%)
    Reddish blonde – 1 (0,21%)
    Red – 0
    Reddish brown – 5 (1,05%)
    Light brown – 39 (8,14%)
    Medium brown – 95 (19,83%)
    Medium ash brown – 62 (12,94%)
    Dark brown – 149 (31,11%)
    Dark ash brown – 31 (6,47%)
    Black – 38 (7,93%)
    Total blondism rate: 12,53% (60 individuals)
    Total rufosity rate: 1,26% (6 people)
    Total brown hair percentage: 79,54% (381 individuals)
    Medium brown shades percentage (including the ashy tones): 32,77% (157 women)
    Dark brown shades (including ashy nuances): 37,58% (180 women)
    Dark hair (dark brown shades + black): 45,51% (218 women)

    Phenotypes I saw:
    1) Long-skulled taller and more robust Aurignacids - Atlanto-Mediterranean, Nordo-Mediterranean, Nordic.
    2) Dinarics and dinaricized types. Often is the Dinaric type mixed with Atlanto-Mediterranean, Cro-Magnon and/or Nordic elements.
    3) Upper Paleolithic survivors (Faelid & Borreby).
    4) Alpines and blends of such with Med, Nordid or Dinarid traits.
    5) Tronder type of Nordocromagnid.
    6) Gracile Mediterraneans were less common.
    7) Armenoid elements again seem restricted to southerners.
    8) East Mediterraneans.
    9) Paleo Atlantids.
    10) Paleo-Sardinians/Berids.
    11) One woman, Raffaella Fico, fits an Egyptid type (East Med-Berberid mix).

    Average results based on both sexes:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue – 163 (17,01%)
    Blue-green – 22 (2,3%)
    Blue-grey – 15 (1,57%)
    Grey-green – 65 (6,78%)
    Grey – 73 (7,62%)
    Green – 100 (10,44%)
    Brown – 309 (32,25%)
    Hazel – 200 (20,88%)
    Black – 9 (0,94%)
    Grey-brown – 2 (0,21%)
    Light eyes total: 45,72% (438 individuals)
    Dark/dark-mixed eyes: 54,28% (520 individuals)
    Blue and blue-mixed light eyes: 20,88% (200 individuals)
    Grey and grey-mixed light eyes: 15,97% (153 individuals)

    Hair colour distribution:
    Blond/blonde – 72 (7,52%)
    Reddish blond/blonde – 2 (0,21%)
    Red – 3 (0,31%)
    Reddish brown – 5 (0,52%)
    Light brown – 57 (5,95%)
    Medium brown – 219 (22,86%)
    Medium ash brown – 94 (9,81%)
    Dark brown – 346 (36,12%)
    Dark ash brown – 73 (7,62%)
    Black – 87 (9,08%)
    Total blondism rate: 7,73% (74 people)
    Total rufosity rate: 1,04% (10 people)
    Total brown hair frequency: 82,88% (794 individuals)
    Medium brown hair frequency: 32,67% (313 individuals)
    Dark brown hair percentage: 43,74% (419 individuals)
    Dark hair (dark brown nuances and black): 52,82% (506 individuals)

    Hair texture among both sexes is mostly straight followed by wavy and curly.
    Last edited by The Blade; 07-21-2019 at 05:18 PM.
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    High percentages for light eyes

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    Way too big difference in blondism between sexes.

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    43% it's too much for Italy, you've included many hazel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Visage ple View Post
    43% it's too much for Italy, you've included many hazel.
    I was clear I included green eyes with minor brown spots as green and light.
    My hazel number for both sexes combined is twice higher than that for green eyes.
    I expected slightly lower results but I'm pretty good at ignoring my expectations and adhering to reality/what I see.
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    thanks for the extensive work.

    i believe slightly higher blondism in female is a variant that gets neutralized by testosterone. many male kids here are blonde for the first 8 or so years of their life

    never



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    Hey nice work, The Blade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Not a Cop View Post
    Way too big difference in blondism between sexes.
    Yes the difference is very large here. I will say in defense of OP, as you are likely aware, Women do have lighter hair (and skin) for genetic reasons, and longer hair also is lighter due to more sun exposure especially in a sunny country like Italy. Furthermore the difference between the sexes in Blondism will be larger in darker pigmented countries as a small difference in the middle of the bell curve makes a massive difference in the extremes and blond hair is more 'extreme' end of the bell curve in darker countries. Difference is still very large though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gıulıoımpa View Post
    thanks for the extensive work.

    i believe slightly higher blondism in female is a variant that gets neutralized by testosterone. many male kids here are blonde for the first 8 or so years of their life
    Females are naturally slightly lighter-haired, however Blade's numbers don't follow the gaussian distribution as in his numbers there are more blonde females than thoose with light brown hair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade View Post
    I was clear I included green eyes with minor brown spots as green and light.
    My hazel number for both sexes combined is twice higher than that for green eyes.
    Border is often hard to determine.

    When i saw calcio members some months , i found 30% of light eyes, and 20% if only blue/blueish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a Cop View Post
    Females are naturally slightly lighter-haired, however Blade's numbers don't follow the gaussian distribution as in his numbers there are more blonde females than thoose with light brown hair.
    Yah thats weird unless light brown is a very narrow category and blonde is a very broad one.

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