Sorbs Ydna

[Ülev]

^^ Sternau = Steinau - Ścinawa?

[Lucas]

As long as we assume that new settlers came from other Non-Slavic regions to replace those lost during the war and plague.

What about Lower Silesia? Check how west of the Oder = huge depopulation, east of the Oder = much smaller depopulation.

I don't want to discuss Silesia now it is different story certainly.

But we can safely conclude that considering northern Lower Saxon dialect is spoken in Mecklemburg now, so after loose of more than 66% population, new settlers who came in spoke that dialect.
Not to mention closest geographical proximity between both regions.

From Czekanowski, so not German biased.

[Peterski]

new settlers who came in spoke that dialect

Probably the majority of them did.

But it is also possible, that not many new settlers came (and population level recovered "from within" by natural growth).

[Lucas]

Probably the majority of them did.

But it is also possible, that not many new settlers came (and population level recovered "from within" by natural growth).

Look at the map above. We can argue about Pommern (and eastern Vor-Pommern) but Mecklemburg is northern Niedersachsen continuum. Of course some remnants of previous inhabitnts survived I don't deny it (acccording to map max 1/3).

[Peterski]

Look at the map above. We can argue about Pommern (and Vor-Pommern) but Mecklemburg is northern Niedersachsen continuum. Of course some remnants of previous inhabitnts survived I don't deny it (acccording to map max 1/3).

Rügen is a case of a language shift:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...tically-Slavic

BTW, Rostock has 32,4% of R1a but Greifswald (located to the east of Rostock) has only 19,2% of R1a.

The region of Rostock (Slavic: Roztoka) has more toponyms of Slavic origin than the region of Greifswald.

Y-DNA figures for Rostock and Greifswald cited above are from Kayser 2005; Immel 2005; Roding 2007.

=====

Proportions of Slavic / Germanic placenames (toponyms) in several areas of North-East Germany:

area around Greifswald - 11,88% / 88,12%
area around Grimmen - 36,58% / 63,42%
area around Franzburg - 32,51% / 67,49%
the island of Rügen - 79,21% / 20,79%

Source: http://koszalin7.pl/st/pom/pomorze_104.html

[Ülev]

r1a, r1a
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...N-KIEV-UKRAINE

[Lucas]

Rügen is a case of a language shift:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...tically-Slavic

BTW, Rostock has 32,4% of R1a but Greifswald (located to the east of Rostock) has only 19,2% of R1a.

The region of Rostock (Slavic: Roztoka) has more toponyms of Slavic origin than the region of Greifswald.

Y-DNA figures for Rostock and Greifswald cited above are from Kayser 2005; Immel 2005; Roding 2007.

=====

Proportions of Slavic / Germanic placenames (toponyms) in several areas of North-East Germany:

It could mean that before 1618 Mecklemburgians were of R1a majority as Sorbs today. Which could be possible for me.

area around Greifswald - 11,88% / 88,12%
area around Grimmen - 36,58% / 63,42%
area around Franzburg - 32,51% / 67,49%
the island of Rügen - 79,21% / 20,79%

Toponyms could survive even heavy influx on Saxon settlers. Some old inhabitants survived and church and state documents used those names so it was no need to change them.

[Peterski]

From that article: "Trzeba wyraźnie podkreślić, że na intensywność procesów germanizacyjnych miały wpływ przede wszystkim: gotowość władców poszczególnych terytoriów do przyjmowania innowacji, dynamika implementacji systemu lennego, siła środowisk miejskich, poziom absorpcji wzorców organizacyjnych w sferze gospodarki wiejskiej, ilość obcych przybyszów osiadających na obszarze określonych ziem słowiańskich. W przypadku terytoriów księstwa rańskiego, a samej Rany szczególnie, żaden z wymienionych elementów nie przybrał takich rozmiarów jak na terytoriach władztw sąsiednich. Pewnym wskaźnikiem dla zobrazowania oddziaływań czynników obcych jest stosunek procentowy nazewnictwa germańskiego do nazewnictwa słowiańskiego w dziedzinach rańskich i sąsiednich (34). O ile w rejonie Greifswaldu relacje pomiędzy rodzimymi a niemieckimi nazwami miejscowości kształtują się w stosunku 11,88% do 88,12%, w rejonie Grimmen 36,58% do 63,42%, w okolicach Franzburga 32,51 do 67,49%, o tyle na Ranie proporcje te wynoszą 79,21 do 20,79%. Czy rzeczywiście jednak tego rodzaju zestawienia można uznać za oddające średniowieczny stan faktyczny w sferze stosunków etnicznych? Spróbujmy przyjrzeć się Ranie nieco dokładniej. (...)"

^^^
Greifswald has 19,2% of R1a, which is not much higher than the percent of Slavic toponyms.

I suppose that areas of Grimmen and Franzburg will have over 20% (and up to 30%) of R1a.

Also stronger Slavic autosomal admixture should be in places with higher % of Slavic toponyms.

[Ülev]

^^ but Greifswald has polish language version
https://www.greifswald.de/pl/

other towns in MEcklenburg-Vorpommern not necessarily

[Peterski]

It could mean that before 1618 Mecklemburgians were of R1a majority as Sorbs today.

I don't think so, crusaders during the Wendish Crusades exterminated and expelled many Slavs.

Sorbs accepted German rule with much less resistance and there were no massacres/expulsions.

I think this area can have a lot of R1a, despite being far to the west (also no crusader brutality):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drevani

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCchow-Dannenberg