British and Irish People; Ancestral affiliation from 23andme: Anglo Saxon, Beaker, etc.

[Bellbeaking]

Anglo Saxon is probably Germanic and Central European Celtic Ancestry. Bell Beaker is Bell Beaker ancestry. Wales apparently has more indigenous farmer, compared to England's high farmer that came later is probably more Eastern. Not a sophisticated study but whatever.

Welsh Connection
Of the groups that invaded the British Isles in the last 2,000 years – the Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, and Normans – only the Anglo-Saxons and Vikings seem to have left a significant genetic imprint on the gene pool of modern British and Irish people. However, these post-Celtic ancestries did not penetrate all corners of the British Isles in equal measure. In Wales, for example, there is little evidence of Anglo-Saxon ancestry, which suggests that Wales has served as a sanctuary for “Beaker” and “Neolithic Farmer” ancestry.

The people of Wales have also worked hard to preserve their native language – Welsh – going so far as to mandate that Welsh be taught in schools throughout the country (Wales is classified as a country, even though it is also part of the United Kingdom). This linguistic renaissance led to an interesting situation: according to the 2011 census in Wales , more children speak Welsh (“Cymraeg” in Welsh) than do working-age adults or retirees. Try saying the name of this Welsh town: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch

0 Anglo Saxon in Wales seems silly though.

Spoiler!

Where the Beakers proto celts? Where they pre-proto celts? Did they speak a now dead INDO-EVROPEAN language?

The “Celtic Fringe”
After the turnover of the British and Irish gene pool during the Bronze Age, the “Celts” began to arrive from Europe, but their ancestral relationship to the preceding migrations of the Beaker people remains unclear. It’s possible that the Celts and the Bronze Age Beaker people have similar ancestry, as scientists have not yet found a distinct or unifying signature in the DNA of modern people living along the “Celtic fringe” or “Celt belt” of western Europe where distinctly Celtic traditions are still found.

It may be more accurate to think of Celtic ancestry in the British Isles as a Beaker-like “blanket,” as this Celtic-like DNA was likely widespread prior to the Roman conquest of Britain and not particularly distinct from the DNA of preceding migrations from mainland Europe. Following the disintegration of Roman rule in Britain, many people of Celtic descent in central and eastern England intermarried with Anglo-Saxons and lost their linguistic heritage. However, Celtic languages – like Welsh, Irish, and Breton – are still spoken along the Celtic fringe and Celtic cultural heritage remains deeply meaningful to millions of people around the world.

[Bellbeaking]

clusters and tree, Scotland with England is interesting. Scotland and Ireland have similar ancestral ratios of EEF/Steppe/WHG, but they might IBD share and have more real recentl ancestry shared with England.




Arrival of the INDO-EVROPEANS

The Beaker Revolution
By analyzing 400 skeletons from prehistoric Europe, scientists discovered that over 90% of the genetic legacy of Britain’s early inhabitants was erased following a mysterious Bronze Age migration from continental Europe. As a result of this migration, present-day populations of Britain and Ireland harbor little ancestry from the original Stone Age architects of well-known sites like Stonehenge and Newgrange. Instead, they derive significant ancestry related to the arrival of the Bronze Age “Bell-Beaker” (or just “Beaker”) people – and the distinctive pottery for which they were named – around 4,400 years ago.

The scientists determined that this particular genetic signature came from north of the Black Sea by way of Central Europe. Furthermore, the Beaker-related DNA found throughout the British Isles was distinct from the DNA of other Beaker people found in Spain, suggesting that practices associated with the Beaker phenomenon were spread through cultural exchange as well as the migration of people.

Most of you have seen this stuff anyway but I am posting anyway for fun times. Do some g25 stuff and just have fun, enjoy, be happy and love it.

Spoiler!

HEMOCHROMATOSIS. THE CELTIC CURSE. I personally carry this allele and another allele for this disease so apparently I should give blood and not eat too much red meat or red wine because you store excess iron, this may have been beneficial at some point when there was not enough Iron in our diets but today it causes disease to joints and organs. The treatment for this is blood letting to release iron. So blood letting in the middle ages may actually have helped some people in Northern Europe. Interesting.

Bagpipes, intricate metalwork, and red hair are often associated with Celtic heritage, but less familiar is the link between “Celtic-like” ancestry and hereditary hemochromatosis – a condition characterized by absorption of too much dietary iron, which can cause damage to the joints and certain organs.

Today, the DNA variants associated with this condition are common in Ireland, leading to the nickname, “The Celtic Curse.” However, most evidence points to a central European origin of the most common variant (HFE C282Y), which was likely carried to the British Isles thousands of years ago and further spread by medieval Viking migrations. Some scientists have proposed that the C282Y variant may have protected our farming ancestors from iron-deficient diets, but the evidence for this “protective” role is limited.

[Creoda]

Anglo Saxon is probably Germanic and Central European Celtic Ancestry. Bell Beaker is Bell Beaker ancestry. Wales apparently has more indigenous farmer, compared to England's high farmer that came later is probably more Eastern. Not a sophisticated study but whatever.



0 Anglo Saxon in Wales seems silly though.

Spoiler!

Where the Beakers proto celts? Where they pre-proto celts? Did they speak a now dead INDO-EVROPEAN language?

Skeptical of all this but that bit of 'Farmer' in Wales is intriguing. Would really like to know how they came to these conclusions.

[Ayetooey]

On the Welsh dna project page on FTDNA, there's a surprisingly high amount of haplogroup I2 carriers, G carrier and E1b carriers; indicative of neolithic farmer heritage. Mainly R1b though ofc.

[celticdragongod]

clusters and tree, Scotland with England is interesting. Scotland and Ireland have similar ancestral ratios of EEF/Steppe/WHG, but they might IBD share and have more real recentl ancestry shared with England.

Interesting that Ulster - which I assume means the native Irish Catholic population - and N Ireland - which I assume means the British Protestant population - do not cluster together. It seems that there has been little mixing between British colonists and native Irish over the centuries.

[Bellbeaking]

Interesting that Ulster - which I assume means the native Irish Catholic population - and N Ireland - which I assume means the British Protestant population - do not cluster together. It seems that there has been little mixing between British colonists and native Irish over the centuries.

Yes other studies have shown this too like the Irish DNA atlas. But this won't last.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17124-4

[Creoda]

Interesting that Ulster - which I assume means the native Irish Catholic population - and N Ireland - which I assume means the British Protestant population - do not cluster together. It seems that there has been little mixing between British colonists and native Irish over the centuries.

The clustering map in the POBI study showed that Ulster Scots are still very much 'British', whereas many West Scots are still in the Irish cluster.

[celticdragongod]

The clustering map in the POBI study showed that Ulster Scots are still very much 'British', whereas many West Scots are still in the Irish cluster.

The western Scots that are in the Irish cluster are from the Highlands. Most of the "Ulster Scots" are descended from Lowland Scots who live closer to the border with England.

[celticdragongod]

Yes other studies have shown this too like the Irish DNA atlas. But this won't last.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17124-4

Why won't it last?

[Creoda]

At a guess 'Anglo-Saxon' is a likeness to modern Dutch/West Germans, and Viking is likeness to modern Norwegians. The 'Celtic'/'Beaker'/'NW France' grouping is confusing to me though, and how high the NW French correlation with Insular Celts is, but it corresponds somewhat with the POBI study.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ritish-regions

I would love if this was based on ancient genomes but it seems unlikely.