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Really?Originally Posted by JosephK
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_W..._SS_Skanderbeg
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...nt-dna-revealsThe 21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian) was a Germanmountain infantrydivision of the Waffen-SS, the armed wing of the German Nazi Party that served alongside, but was never formally part of, the Wehrmacht during World War II.The division was developed around the nucleus of an ethnic Albanian battalion which had briefly seen combat against the Yugoslav Partisans in eastern Bosnia as part of the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian). Composed of Albanians with mostly German and Yugoslav Volksdeutsche (ethnic German) officers and non-commissioned officers, it was given the title Skanderbeg after medieval Albanian lord George Kastrioti Skanderbeg, who defended the region of Albania against the Ottoman Empire for more than two decades in the 15th century.
Skanderbeg never reached divisional strength, being at most a brigade-sized formation of between 6,000 and 6,500 troops. In May 1944, members of the division arrested 281 Jews in Pristina and handed them over to the Germans, who transported them to the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, where many were killed. The division itself was better known for this action and for murdering, raping, and looting in predominantly Serbareas than for participating in combat operations on behalf of the German war effort. Its only significant military actions took place during a German anti-Partisan offensive in the German occupied territory of Montenegroin June and July 1944. Following those operations, the unit was deployed as a guard force at the chromium mines in Kosovo, where it was quickly overrun by the Partisans, leading to widespread desertion. Reinforced by German Kriegsmarine personnel and with fewer than 500 Albanians remaining in its ranks, it was disbanded on 1 November 1944. The remaining members were incorporated into the 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen. After the war, divisional commander SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Waffen-SSAugust Schmidhuber was found guilty of war crimes by a court in Belgrade and executed in 1947.
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On 23 May, Fitzthum noted the failure of the Albanian units that had been used in operations against the Partisans. He reported that he had dissolved four Albanian battalions organized by the Wehrmacht, describing most Albanian army and gendarmerie officers as "totally corrupt, unusable, undisciplined and untrainable."[13][f] The Germans found that Kosovo Albanians were more cooperative than Albanians from Albania-proper.[13] This was mainly because they feared a return to Yugoslav rule.[8] Thus, many of the division's recruits were Kosovo Albanians, although some were refugees from Albania-proper. The quality of most of these recruits was poor, and only between 6,000 and 6,500 were considered suitable to receive training.[11][29] Those that were accepted were a combination of about 1,500 former Royal Yugoslav Armyprisoners of war, elements of the failed Albanian army and gendarmerie, volunteers from both pre-war and expanded Albania, and conscripts from families that had more than two sons.[18] The Albanians may have joined for a range of reasons, including access to modern weapons and military training, to help revise the borders of Albania, revenge, and even the opportunity for looting.[30]
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Early on, it became clear that most of the division's Muslim Albanian members seemed to be interested only in settling scores with their Christian Serb adversaries, who became the target of numerous atrocities.[11] In order to put a stop to the crimes, the Germans had to disarm battalions of the division in the towns of Peć and Prizren and arrest the Albanian officers, with one commanding officer even being sent to prison in Germany.[18] On 14 May 1944,[40]members of the division raided Jewish homes in Pristina, arrested 281 Jews and handed them over to the Germans, who sent them to the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, where many were killed.[41] The historian Noel Malcolmdescribes this event as "the most shameful episode in Kosovo's wartime history."[42] The division was later involved in a massacre of Albanian partisans.[43] It was also responsible for the expulsion of up to 10,000 Slavic families from Kosovo as new Albanian settlers arrived from the poor areas of northern Albania.[44] The arrival of these Albanians was encouraged by Italian authorities, and it is estimated that as many as 72,000 Albanians were settled or re-settled in Kosovo during the war.[7] Between 28 May and 5 July 1944, the division apprehended a total of 510 Jews, communists and other anti-fascists and turned them over to the Germans. It also carried out retaliatory hangings of suspected saboteurs.[27]
In June 1944, Skanderbeg engaged in large-scale field manoeuvres in eastern Montenegro.[45] In Andrijevica, the division summarily executed more than 400 Orthodox Christian civilians.[46] It participated in operations Endlich(Finally) and Falkenauge (Hawkeye)[34] in June and July, as well as Draufgänger (Daredevil),[32] during which it was the main force used by the Germans.[47] These operations were focused on the destruction of strong Partisan forces in the Đakovica, Peć and Mokra Gora areas.[34] By the end of Operation Draufgänger, more than 400 men had deserted or otherwise gone missing.[28] According to Neubacher, the division was carelessly committed to fighting in the early stages of its training and performed poorly.[18] Between 18 and 27 August, the division fought the Partisans in and around Debar but failed to capture the city.[48] During the summer of 1944, Deva was sidelined within the League. Fitzthum was so concerned about the impact that this would have on the development of the division that he wrote to Himmler.[30] By the end of August 1944, the Germans had decided that the division was only of use for basic guarding duties.[49] Some members were charged with guarding chromium mines near Kosovo before the area was overrun by the Partisans. In the ensuing clashes, one of the division's regiments lost more than 1,000 men and many Albanians deserted.[32] Some of the desertions occurred after a Partisan offensive northeast of Gusinje.[18] Army Group E reported that the division's performance showed that it had "absolutely no military value."[32]
September–November 1944[edit]
On 1 September 1944, members of the division stationed in Tetovo and Gostivar mutinied, killing their German officers and NCOs.[50] By this time, the division numbered fewer than 7,000 men, less than one third of its intended strength.[24] Within two months of its initial deployment, 3,500 had deserted. Himmler brought in 3,000–4,000 Kriegsmarine (German navy) personnel from Greece to make up the numbers, but this had little effect on the division's fighting ability.[11][51][52] The desertions were mainly caused by Germany's defeats, serious shortfalls in food and equipment, as well as from observing constant overflights by the United States Army Air Force, Allied propaganda, and the approaching end of Germany's military hegemony in the Balkans. Further reasons for the escalating number of desertions included the news that both Bulgaria and Romania had joined the Allies, Josip Broz Tito's amnesty which ended on 15 September, and a demand by Albania's Party of Labour that fighting-age men join the National Liberation Front.[53]
By the beginning of October 1944, the division's strength had fallen to about 4,900 men, fewer than 1,500 of whom were fit for combat.[32] Between April and October, 3,425 had deserted, constituting over half the division's strength. Schmidhuber reported that even the 697 members of the battalion that had served in the 13th SS Division had deserted.[54] The unit was blighted by shortages of equipment and armaments, and a lack of German staff to train new recruits, as demonstrated by the fact that over the summer and autumn only a single battalion had been readied for combat.[27] Schmidhuber held his men in contempt, and he, his superiors, and Fitzthum explained their failure to create an effective security force by denigrating the Albanians' culture and military reputation.[55][56] Later, less-involved members of the Wehrmacht stated that the principal issue regarding the unit's reliability may have been that the Germans did not work closely with the Albanians at the local level.[55] In mid-October, the division was engaged in heavy fighting around Đakovica.[34] It also aided the Wehrmacht in its orderly withdrawal from Kosovo, covering the Wehrmacht's flanks and engaging the Partisans.[48][27] By this time, desertions had significantly affected the division's strength, and its 86 officers and 467 NCOs were left with a force of only 899 men, about half of whom were Albanian.[57] On 24 October, Generaloberst Alexander Löhr, the commander of Army Group E, ordered that all Albanian members of the division be disarmed and released.[24]
On 1 November 1944, the division was disbanded.[32] Kosovo Albanians took up arms against the Partisans upon learning that the region would not be unified with Albania after the war, despite earlier Partisan promises. Atrocities occurred when 30,000 Partisans were sent to Kosovo to quell Albanian resistance in the region.[23] Between 3,000 and 25,000 Kosovo Albanians were killed in the ensuing violence.[58][h]
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The division itself was considered to have been a military failure.[68] Not one of its members was awarded an Iron Cross while serving in it.[69] Schmidhuber observed that, "[w]ith a light mortar you can basically chase him [the Albanian] around the world. During the attack he goes only as far as he finds something to steal or sack. For him, the war is over when he captures a goat, a ploughshare or the wheel of a sewing machine."[28] Professor Paul Mojzes writes that the division was better known for committing atrocities against Serbs than it was for contributing to the German war effort.[70] Its role in deporting Jews from Kosovo has been challenged by the Albanian historian Shaban Sinani, who claims that the division did not participate in any deportations on the Germans' behalf.[71] David Patterson, a historian specializing in anti-Semitism and the Holocaust, writes that the division "played a major role in rendering the Balkans Judenrein in the winter of 1943–1944."[72] During the Kosovo War of 1998–1999, the American journalist Chris Hedges alleged that some Kosovo Liberation Army leaders were directly descended from members of the division and were ideologically influenced by it.[73] Malcolm has challenged this claim.[74]
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https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...nt-dna-reveals
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https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...nt-dna-reveals
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Yeah We are quite proud of the SS Skanderbeg, had some scores to settle with the serbs.
As for the serb origin thing, why would you even take it seriously? Yeah you got A. DNA aight, dont mean a couple slavs never got mixed in the fun.
You say "whiff of bulgarian" yourself so I dont know what the hell you think you are, but a clean greek? No such thing, and this of cpurse goes with all other People and nations too.
Except Japanese people. They are "Čista" as dolfus would say. Damn SS Skanderbeg did those slavs wrong, wrong indeed
"If if if if if if if if if if if if if we if we fall for you know a bunch of Okie Doke just because eh eh eh eh eh eh eh sounds funny" - Barack Osama (?)
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FFS, this map is even more Balkanized than modern Balkans. I side with Roumelian autonomists.
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If you are proud of the SS Skanderbeg, you should stop calling other people "barbarians".I didn't suggest that we are pure. The article clarifies that we are ~80% indigenous, obviously less so near the borders where I come from. I never had any problem with my origins, but the truth is the truth...
As for the serb origin thing, why would you even take it seriously? Yeah you got A. DNA aight, dont mean a couple slavs never got mixed in the fun.
You say "whiff of bulgarian" yourself so I dont know what the hell you think you are, but a clean greek? No such thing, and this of cpurse goes with all other People and nations too.
The Japanese are actually Koreans, some 13 centuries now, except for a few folks from the far north...
Except Japanese people. They are "Čista" as dolfus would say. Damn SS Skanderbeg did those slavs wrong, wrong indeed
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Well I was just trolling on the Dorian invaders part, so chill. It sounds like you cant take a joke my man ,take it easy.
However if being proud of the ss skanderbeg makes me a barbarian? Hell yeah i am! And im quite doubtful on just one article being convincing for you, since its not really clear as to what counts as indigenous. Are vlachs,karamnldes,pontids,slavophonic maks, or Arvanites indigenous greeks? What about copts? Greeks in Syria?
All in all, Greeks as a whole, are a heterogenous group. Doesnt mean there are no real greeks though, i would consider them a plurality however.
I mean is it really that simple as speaking greek,changing my name and religion for me to become the actual granchild of socrates or aristotle? This is just propaganda, it created a much stronger greece(not saying it created greece in general, just that it warmed people up to be integrated and well sometimes (metaxas) assimilated.
The purest greeks ,ethnically speaking are of thessaly.,maybe some islands too,the less traveled too ones. Least amount of slavic,albanian,turkish,gypsy DNA
If that study shows that 80% are indigenous, and you count these groups as greek(because they fought for you for ex) then whats with the rest of the 20%?
"If if if if if if if if if if if if if we if we fall for you know a bunch of Okie Doke just because eh eh eh eh eh eh eh sounds funny" - Barack Osama (?)
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