Do you believe in UFOs?

[Baron Samedi]

I'm not really sure in this matter....

I'm more interested in researching the paranormal things that happen on this planet than considering the possibility of MORE paranormal stuff happening on others, if you get my drift....

[Galloglaich]

The observable universe it at least 93 billion light years in diameter. It is likely that the galaxies within our visible universe represent only a minuscule fraction of the galaxies in the universe. This universe contains more than 80 billion galaxies, each of which contain from ten million to one trillion stars.

To think that life only evolved on earth, and nowhere else, is a ridiculous thought that can only be justified if one is religious and believe that God created us as the centre of the universe.

Considering mathematical probabilities, life would have had millions of other opportunities to evolve in this vast expanse of trillions upon trillions of stars. Even in our own "small" solar system, there is evidence pointing to life elsewhere. In fact, there is a possibility that the building blocks of life on earth could have come from outer space via meteorites.

Whether intelligent extraterrestrial life had opportunity and the ability to reach earth, is another question, and far less likely.

I had initially decided not to post on this thread because Psychonaut had already posted and his views were a fair approximation of my own. I didn't wish to be redundant. Then I clicked back on and Loki's post made me wish to add something. At the risk of being redundant:

Regarding the existence of "life" other than on Earth, I agree with the above post. The mathematical probabilities are almost too great to defy the possibilities, especially when one considers "possibility" in terms of the latest String or "M"-theory hypotheses concerning the multiple layer "structure" of the Universe.

The section highlighted in bold is particularly significant to my thoughts. I don't totally discount the possibility of advanced biological beings coming to Earth by physically traveling vast gulfs of interstellar space in our own essential experience of "Time"; however, the probabilities involved would seem to suggest that something else is at play here (at least in our own dimension, as others may exist). That's why I'm more prone to think that the ET experience is more likely the result of some sort of Time/Space/dimensional "warping". I think entities are coming here, I just think they're probably coming here from somewhere other than where the conventional mechanical physics theories of some Ufologists would suggest. I somewhat like the idea of "ultra-terrestrials" put forth by authors such as John Keel.

I think that our current faculties are somewhat unable to process this "phenomena" (in the Kantian sense) that we receive from the entities in question, and thus we are left with incomplete perceptions and impressions of the experience. The mind must make some sense of this, and thus we "package" the experience in a way that is interpretable and meaningful to us. For a lot of people in the modern empirical/technological age, this explanation "means" that some kind of superior technology is responsible as a rationalization for the encounter (and in a sense, they may be right). Thus, many of us "see" mechanical spacecraft and biological beings. In some cases, perhaps the beings have accumulated enough material "weight" to actually have physical substance. In other times, when mankind had a different relationship to the world around him, perhaps similar experiences were interpreted as the "fairy-tales" that Psycho had mentioned. I don't know. I might be nuts too.

[Beorn]

Whether intelligent extraterrestrial life had opportunity and the ability to reach earth, is another question, and far less likely.

According to Paul Horowitz of Harvard University, there should be "at least one radio transmitting civilisation within 1000 light-years of the sun", which should give us roughly 1000 civilisations in our galaxy alone.

In our galaxy alone there could have been up to 12 billion civilisations over the course of 12 billion years according to certain formation rates.

I read an interesting article by Ian Crawford in Scientific American a while ago, that covered the possibilities of 'alien civilisations' according to Fermi's_paradox.

"There are only four conceivable ways of reconciling the absence of ETs with the widely held view that advanced civilisations are common.
Perhaps interstellar space-flight is infeasible, in which case ETs could never have come here even if they wanted to.

Perhaps ET civilisations are indeed actively exploring the galaxy but have not reached us yet. Perhaps interstellar travel is feasible, but ETs choose not to undertake it. Or perhaps the ETs have been, or still are, active in Earth's vicinity but have decided not to interfere with us.
If we can eliminate each of these explanations of the Fermi Paradox, we will have to face the possibility that we are the most advanced life-forms in the galaxy.

The first explanation clearly fails. No known principle of physics or engineering rules out interstellar space-flight.
Even if these early days of the space age, engineers have envisaged propulsion strategies that might reach 10 to 20 percent of the speed of light, thereby permitting travel to nearby stars in a matter of decades."

For the same reason, the second explanation is problematic as well. Any civilisation with advanced rocket technology would be able to colonize the entire Galaxy on a cosmically short timescale.
For example, consider a civilisation that sends colonists to a few of the planetary systems closest to it. After those colonies have established themselves, they send out secondary colonies of their own, and so on.
The number of colonies grows exponentially. A colonisation wave front will move outward with a speed determined by the speed of the starships and by the time required by each colony to establish itself.
New settlements will quickly fill in this volume of space behind this wave front.



Scientific American, July 2000

[Osweo]

I had initially decided not to post on this thread because Psychonaut had already posted and his views were a fair approximation of my own.

Me too, near enough. I couldn't really click either poll option because of it.

In other times, when mankind had a different relationship to the world around him, perhaps similar experiences were interpreted as the "fairy-tales" that Psycho had mentioned. I don't know. I might be nuts too.

Aye, and in the intermediate period - have you ever read about the 'scareships'? Our concept of 'futuristic' technology shift with time...

[Loki]

I doubt that simians will rule earth for a long time to come. In all probability humans would face extinction over the next few hundred thousand years by way of natural disaster like the dinosaurs. I think we've been very lucky to get so far and to rule the planet. We are hardly the most pleasant beasts ... and that is probably why we have been so successful.

If there is extraterrestrial intelligent life, maybe advanced dolphins would one day make contact with them.

[Galloglaich]

Me too, near enough. I couldn't really click either poll option because of it.

I really wasn't sure which way to go either. I ended up going with "Yes".

Aye, and in the intermediate period - have you ever read about the 'scareships'? Our concept of 'futuristic' technology shift with time...

If you're referring to the rash of sightings over America and Europe at the turn of the 19th century, yes-a little. Very interesting when considered in relation to 'futuristic' technology shift. Especially when viewed in the contemporary paradigm of the late 19th-early 20th centuries. Have you ever read anything specifically about that?

[Skandi]

If it's not already been said, there almost certainly have been/will be other inteligent life that we could recognise. But would they exist at the same time as us? our planet is about 3.6billion years old but we have only bee capable of receiving signals for about 100 years, our planet and sun are not one of the first generation either.

Even if a society did form and was transmitting now, we would not be about to receive the signals by the time they reached us. What is the lifespan of a technologically advanced civilisation?

[Lars]

No. I believe all the 'unidentified flying object-reports' can be explained when investigated.
I would bet that the more exposure this phenomenon is given in the media, the more 'incidents' will be reported.

However, I do believe that life exists elsewhere in the universe. It's seems like such waste of space if not...

[Æmeric]

Well, do you?

In either case, why do or don't you believe?

What I'm talking about specifically here are the UFO's of otherworldly origins.

I answered the poll before reading the first post. I believe in UFOs but I'm not convinced they are of otherworlds - or if they are those worlds may be connected to our own.

Living in Arizona I have seen odd objects in the nightsky & know persons who have sworn to have seen even weirder things. Much of southern Arizona is uninhabited desert used as an airforce bombing range. Perfect for testing experimental aircraft, just like Nevada. So I think much of what people see in the sky is actually secret aircraft being tested by the military. While I'm at it I have also seen Black Helicopters in Arizona - doing nothing menacing but there is the sky with no markings. I don't know why black helicopter sightings are ridiculed, it's not as though there is some sort of physical imposiblity to a black helicopter. Sightings of a BH brings more ridicule then those of UFOs.

Some of the UFOs spotted could be from our future.. or past. I say our future or past referring to our reference of time. Space travel to other planets suitable for habitation would take thousands, millions or billions of years to complete. Time travel would be the only feasible way to travel across the galaxy. Also, in refering to our point-of-view of time: In the same way that 12:00AM March 16, 2009 will not occure at the same time in Sydney, London or Los Angeles (as a matter-of-fact it is already March 16 in Sydney) March 16, 2009 may have happen thousands or millions of years ago in some solar systems & may not happen for thousands or millions of more years in other solar systems. Some of us may have descendents 50-generations removed from us who lived & died thousands (or millions) of years ago according to our position in the galactic clock. Those aliens piloting the extraterrestrial spacecraft might well be our descendents - or their bio-robotic slaves - who intentionally or inadvertantly traveled into the wrong time frame.

[Psychonaut]

To think that life only evolved on earth, and nowhere else, is a ridiculous thought that can only be justified if one is religious and believe that God created us as the centre of the universe.

I'm waiting with bated breath for us to explore the oceans that lie beneath te surface of Europa. If the second model below is correct, the chances that life could've evolved there are pretty good.