Origin of E-V13

[WeirdLookingFellow]

That’s after E men clapped the native sub saharan negroid cheeks and gave birth to half negroids. I’m pretty sure autosomally fully ANA(Ancestral North African, where E even came from) looked quite unique, neither negroid nor Eurasian.

So fucking glad you're back.

[EM78GREENSAVANNAH]

https://youtu.be/8Z3Jfja_9Ck

Even Kiffians were mostly cacausoid of the mechtoid(robust, leaning more towards paleo Europeans) and proto-med variety.

[Daco Celtic]

I'm E-V13 living in a Rb1 and I1 neighborhood. If only they knew.

[EM78GREENSAVANNAH]

Interesting read for us E carriers



"The Kiffian skulls have been metrically analysed, and they (shown below as the Gob-e sample) group closely with the North African Iberomaurusian/Cro-Magnon samples i.e. robust archaic Caucasoids. The later Tenerians (Gob-m) are outliers, as they have a leaner, more Mediterranean structure"

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0002995

Green Sahara was non SS African.

Some 10,000 years ago, when glaciers chilled northern Europe, the Sahara desert was a fertile, well-watered land. Among the most favored parts of it must have been the Tassili-N-Ajjer, a plateau about 900 miles southeast of Algiers. This mountain range covers a staggering 72,000 sq. km of the south east of Algeria, bordering Libya and Niger. It was here where a world class tourist attraction site was discovered in early 1930s and since then it has never ceased to amaze its visitors from all around the world. Tassili n'Ajjer is home to thousands of ancient paintings that are believed to have been delicately painted about 10,000 years ago.

Today the region is one of the driest deserts on earth and almost uninhabited, but in prehistoric and early historic times it boiled with vigorous life.

From an analysis of the skeletons and pottery, scientists identified the two successive cultures that occupied the settlement. The Kiffians, some of whom stood up to six feet tall, both men and women, lived there during the Sahara’s wettest period, between 10,000 and 8,000 years ago. They were primarily hunter-gatherers who speared huge lake perch with harpoons.

Elena A. A. Garcea, an archaeologist at the University of Cassino in Italy, identified ceramics with wavy lines and zigzag patterns as Kiffian, a culture associated with northern Africa. Pots bearing a pointillistic pattern were linked to the Ténérians, a people named for the Ténéré desert, a stretch of the Sahara known to Tuareg nomads as a “desert within a desert.”

Christopher M. Stojanowski, an archaeologist at Arizona State University, said the two cultures were “biologically distinct groups.” The bones and teeth showed that in contrast to the robust Kiffians, the Ténérians were typically short and lean and apparently led less rigorous lives. The shapes of the Ténérian skulls are puzzling, researchers said, because they resemble those of Mediterranean people, not other nearby groups.

Mediterranean Proper: Short stature, about 160 cm.; skull length 183-187 mm. male mean; vault height 132-137 mm. mean; cranial index means 73-75; browridges and bone development weak, face short, nose leptorrhine to mesorrhine. Type already met in Portugal and Palestine in Late Mesolithic. Represents the paedomorphic or sexually undifferentiated Mediterranean form, and often carries a slight archaic tendency.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/s.../15sahara.html

Iwo Eleru’s place among Late Pleistocene and Early Holocene populations of North and East Africa

Christopher M. Stojanowski et al. Journal of Human Evolution 75 (2014) 80-89

"Nonetheless, West African contribution to the peopling of the Sahara is not supported by results presented here. Although Iwo Eleru was most similar to the Saharan sample centroid using size corrected data, the specimen was still quite distinctive from all Holocene samples and the pattern of distances was not robust to the data scaling method. Interestingly, material from the 10,000
year old Gobero site in Niger was included in the central Saharan sample (Sereno et al., 2008) and Iwo Eleru demonstrated no phenetic similarities to these individuals despite their relative geographic proximity (see Fig. 1). Therefore, results presented here lend conditional support to inferences based in linguistics (Ehret, 1993; Blench, 2006), archeology (Sutton, 1974, 1977; Clark, 1980; Haaland, 1992, 2009; Drake et al., 2011), and physical anthropology (Petit-Maire and Dutour, 1987; Dutour, 1989a,b) that the Holocene
peopling of the Sahara did not initially involve the northward migration of tropical West Africans."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25065342

[EM78GREENSAVANNAH]

I'm E-V13 living in a Rb1 and I1 neighborhood. If only they knew.

E1b has led R1b and I1 many times before, Hitler, Napoleon, ect... Try shouting some orders see if it works.

[EM78GREENSAVANNAH]

Quoted from another member on another forum:

There is more and more evidence coming out that E-V13 was not a Balkan haplogroup to begin with, but only spread there during the middle bronze age. Which makes the origin of E-V13 even more complex.


"The problem with E-V13 is that during the whole Neolithic up until Middle Bronze Age both his ancestors E-L618 and E-V13 was relatively present at very low percentages, which didn't contribute into European genepoole more than ~1-2%, that changes in Middle Bronze Age though. The problem is to find the origin of expansion, it's very tough. I agreed before on Southern Balkan origin, but looks to me unlikely. I still have room to expect E-V13 in the Balkans but i very much doubt it, and it looks like majority of people are agreeing in this.

E-V13 appeared in North/Central Balkans during Middle Bronze Age and in Southern Balkans mainly during Late Bronze Age. But, what is the zero point of starting of the expansion, that's unknown so far. The spread within Urnfield cultural complex during LBA makes sense."

[Kriptc06]

My haplo is still a mystery, here are some of my matches in YFull, my closest match is predicted to be in the middle ages.

[Tauromachos]

My haplo is still a mystery, here are some of my matches in YFull, my closest match is predicted to be in the middle ages.

Your haplogroup seems pretty international

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Don't know if this has been posted.


https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/09/20/423079

Abstract:

The earliest ancient DNA data of modern humans from Europe dates to ~40 thousand years ago, but that from the Caucasus and the Near East to only ~14 thousand years ago, from populations who lived long after the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) ~26.5-19 thousand years ago. To address this imbalance and to better understand the relationship of Europeans and Near Easterners, we report genome-wide data from two ~26 thousand year old individuals from Dzudzuana Cave in Georgia in the Caucasus from around the beginning of the LGM. Surprisingly, the Dzudzuana population was more closely related to early agriculturalists from western Anatolia ~8 thousand years ago than to the hunter-gatherers of the Caucasus from the same region of western Georgia of ~13-10 thousand years ago. Most of the Dzudzuana population's ancestry was deeply related to the post-glacial western European hunter-gatherers of the 'Villabruna cluster', but it also had ancestry from a lineage that had separated from the great majority of non-African populations before they separated from each other, proving that such 'Basal Eurasians' were present in West Eurasia twice as early as previously recorded. We document major population turnover in the Near East after the time of Dzudzuana, showing that the highly differentiated Holocene populations of the region were formed by 'Ancient North Eurasian' admixture into the Caucasus and Iran and North African admixture into the Natufians of the Levant. We finally show that the Dzudzuana population contributed the majority of the ancestry of post-Ice Age people in the Near East, North Africa, and even parts of Europe, thereby becoming the largest single contributor of ancestry of all present-day West Eurasians."


"Our co-modeling of Epipaleolithic Natufians and Ibero-Maurusians from Taforalt confirms that the Taforalt population was mixed11, but instead of specifying gene flow from the ancestors of Natufians into the ancestors of Taforalt as originally reported, we infer gene flow in the reverse direction (into Natufians). The Neolithic population from Morocco, closely related to Taforalt17 is also consistent with being descended from the source of this gene flow, and appears to have no admixture from the Levantine Neolithic (Supplementary Information section 3). If our model is correct, Epipaleolithic Natufians trace part of their ancestry to North Africa, consistent with morphological and archaeological studies that indicate a spread of morphological features22 and artifacts from North Africa into the Near East. Such a scenario would also explain the presence of Y-chromosome haplogroup E in the Natufians and Levantine farmers6, a common link between the Levant and Africa. Moreover, our model predicts that West Africans (represented by Yoruba) had 12.5±1.1% ancestry from a Taforalt related group rather than Taforalt having ancestry from an unknown Sub-Saharan African source11; this may have mediated the limited Neanderthal admixture present in West Africans23. An advantage of our model is that it allows for a local North African component in the ancestry of Taforalt, rather than deriving them exclusively from Levantine and Sub-Saharan sources."

[Asten]

Ev-13 is Noble