Origin of E-V13

[Daos777]

No, but the yDNA distribution at the Salauger site was 55% I2 and 45% E. Maybe they returned together to Eastern Europe and after some time became each other's arch nemesis, one clan took the name of Serbs and the other one of Albanians .

Wait no Y-DNA G samples in a Neolithic site? How is that even possible lol.

[Ion Basescul]

Wait no Y-DNA G samples in a Neolithic site? How is that even possible lol.

It seems like a mix of Hunter Gatherer lineages (I) and whatever (E) were have grouped together and perhaps didn't let any outsiders in. G's were not invited basically.

This is the site

[ChocolateFace]

E-V13 mutated/emerged in the Balkans thousands of years ago.

[Daos777]

It seems like a mix of Hunter Gatherer lineages (I) and whatever (E) were have grouped together and perhaps didn't let any outsiders in. G's were not invited basically.

This is the site

"The skeleton of a man showed numerous traces of violence on several parts of his anatomy, notably on the skull. The individual's left arm was also severed. Even more exceptional detail, beneath these eight skeletons were the remains of eight left arms. The latter present invoices at the level of the humerus and at the level of the forearms. Several indications seem to suggest that the arms were cut using a heavy and sharp ax-like object and that the flesh was still present on the bones. In the absence of written sources for this period, we cannot know the type of event which could have engendered so much violence, but it is certain that these burials go beyond the strictly funerary framework."

These niggas were chimping the fuck out in the neolithic lmao.

[Ion Basescul]

"The skeleton of a man showed numerous traces of violence on several parts of his anatomy, notably on the skull. The individual's left arm was also severed. Even more exceptional detail, beneath these eight skeletons were the remains of eight left arms. The latter present invoices at the level of the humerus and at the level of the forearms. Several indications seem to suggest that the arms were cut using a heavy and sharp ax-like object and that the flesh was still present on the bones. In the absence of written sources for this period, we cannot know the type of event which could have engendered so much violence, but it is certain that these burials go beyond the strictly funerary framework."

These niggas were chimping the fuck out in the neolithic lmao.

[Halgurd]

I mean given the ages of the samples nothing disproves a east to west migration yet because that cardial sample is about 8,000 years old and these samples are around 6,000 +- 500. It's just weird how the frequency of E-M78 is so high in this culture compared to balkan and other neolithic samples. And we even have more E-M78 samples in Hungary compared to balkans.

The main problem is we still don't know if E-M78 was assimilated in Europe or brought by Cardial culture because we have 0 E-M78 samples from the proposed Cardial homeland. If any E-M78 ancestral to E-V13 is EVER found in levant I would be less skeptical about this theory.

Also, the Spanish sample is also around 7,500-8,000 years old and I can't find the source for it so if you guys have it please post it.

We have plenty of samples from the Levant and the fact that none of them are ancestral to E-V13 makes me very skeptical about any Levantine linked origin of E-V13. There is also a lack of E-M78 in modern populations of the Levant.

[Ion Basescul]

Did you guys see this? Loads of E folk from Bulgaria are waiting to be published. There is an Iron Age E-V13, which will make it the second E-V13 in the region after the Iron Age Moldovan from Stefan Voda district.

Recently came to my attention a few videos, which claim a new big project about testing old bones from different periods in Bulgaria. This will be between Dr.Reich's Harvard Lab and the Bulgarian Archaeological Institute.
It seems the Harvard lab has some unpublished results from the study The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe. They appear for a short time on the screen of this video (around 6:00 min) but are covered by the head and are a mirror image. I managed to see that all assigned haplogroups from the Bulgarian Iron age are some kind of E:
https://sedemosmi.tv/production/%d1%...2-2020-%d0%b3/


There is one E1b1b1a1b1a - V13, 2 E1b1b1a1b1 - L618 and one given only as E. They are from Kapitan Andreevo-Svilengrad area, this is South East Bulgaria, close to the Turkish/Greek border. From this area is also the previous low coverage Thracian samples, worked out as M78. This is the hinterland of the Odrysian Thracian kingdom and there is a reason to believe that the Thracians from the Classical period are also predominantly V13.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odrysian_kingdom


The guy on the video also mentioned that one Medieval sample from 9th c. Central Bulgaria has been proven Q1a2a. According to him, this must be some Old Bulgar, however not completely sure in not an Avar. He is paddling the Iran-Caucasus origin of the Old Bulgars, something most Bulgarians don't agree with. At any case more bones will be tested with this new project and the truth will be revealed at last.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

So:

1) An Anatolian/Levant origin is not credible because there are no E-V13 people there anymore;

2) A North-African origin seems strange since there don't seem to be proper migration patterns.

We're aliens?

[Ion Basescul]

So:

1) An Anatolian/Levant origin is not credible because there are no E-V13 people there anymore;

2) A North-African origin seems strange since there don't seem to be proper migration patterns.

We're aliens?

It could be pretty simple actually. Upstream from V13 is L618, which was found only in Europe since the Neolithic.



Then upstream from L618 is Z1919, which wasn't identified in ancients. If we go further up, we get to M78, which is the branch that confuses people, because there are hits in Iberomarusians and one Levantine sample.
It is obvious that the oldest samples discovered so far are in North Africa and only after 7000 years it appears in Levant (Jordan). The ancestors of L618 could have either:

• All come from North Africa
• All come from the Levant
• A combination of the two; one migration route through Spain and another through Anatolia

[CordedWhelp]

Probably Copper Age-Bronze Age movements from West Asia into Europe.

Probably a similar story as my mtdna.