Itt az ideje hogy a magyarok felhagyjanak balkánnal szemben érzett felsőbbrendűséggel

[Jana]

Gypsies are included in the statistics (8-9% of the population), they live like third worlders, so they bring the avarage Hungary's avarage AIC down. Avarage white hungarian probably lives a little better than avarage croat, but avarage hungarian citizen doesn't live better than avarage Croatian citizen.

I guess so. In Romania Gypsies also bring average down, for example houshold income.

[Universe]

I would rank them like this in overall living standard : Hungary>>>Croatia>>>Romania.

So why does AIC ranking show avarage hungarian household has less money to spend than in Romania or Croatia?

[Universe]

This is not fact, have you ever been in Romania? They are like Borsod. AIC have nothing to do with living standars, the GNI shows the real money of peoples, the individual consumption is an another thing. For example if i have 100 million euro, and you have 1 million euro and i spend 10000 euro / month and you spend 20000 euro / month that's doesn't mean that you are richer than me...

Romanian infrastructure is less developed but in terms of standard of living they have overtaken Hungary.

For example if i have 100 million euro, and you have 1 million euro and i spend 10000 euro / month and you spend 20000 euro / month that's doesn't mean that you are richer than me...

Cherrypicked individual example.
If a large group(millions) of people spend more money than another group that is because they have more money. Lots of hungarians live paycheck to paycheck, you wanna tell me they are saving up a lot of money? How? And what for? Why do hungarians save money and why romanians don't? What a weird theory, and without evidence of course.

AIC shows how much money a household can spend. That's the very definition of living standard.

the GNI shows the real money of peoples,

It doesn't. Do you know what GNI measures?

How to Calculate Gross National Income

To calculate GNI for a country, add up the following:

Consumption (C). Consumption (or personal consumption expenditure) is the value of all goods and services acquired and consumed by the country’s households.
Investment (I). This is any domestic capital spending by a country’s citizen-run businesses.
Government spending (G). This is all consumption and investments made by the government. Government spending does not include any transfer payments (such as social security paid to citizens), since they are not actually government spending, but a transfer of money.
Net exports (X). This is the country’s exports MINUS the country’s imports. In order for this number to increase NNI, a country needs to export more than it imports.
Net foreign factor income (NFFI). This is income that the country’s citizens earn abroad MINUS the income that foreign residents earn in the country and send out of the country.

So the dozens of billions the government spent on lots of useless sh*t like Orbán's kisvasút, hosting overpriced swimming world cups(overpriced because the contracts are given to Orbán's oligarchs who steal the money) and countless other bullshit sport tournaments that stink from corruption, multiple overpriced brand new stadiums with 40.000 seats that are frequented by 100 people on the weekend matches are included in GNI. This kind of spending shows up in GDP too but they don't improve the standard of living, so I find them unreliable metrics.

[Loki]

One should be cautious to compare such statistics between countries, because often you're not comparing apples with apples, but apples with pears, etc. For example, looking at the figures for Ireland, it would appear that the Irish are incredibly wealthy. But the fact of the matter is that Ireland was bankrupt in 2008, and received huge bank bailout loans from Europe. Ireland also has a record amount of private debt, and it gets quite complicated to explain everything. And large US multinational companies do "corporate tax inversions", i.e. take over local Irish companies and combine it with theirs... and then list it in Ireland, to pay less tax. Then all of that shows as Irish property, but in fact most of the wealth is in the hands of rich American owners. The average Irish person on the street... well, that's a different story.

[Jana]

So why does AIC ranking show avarage hungarian household has less money to spend than in Romania or Croatia?

I dont know, this suprises me to be honest.

[Jana]

Austria is definitely richer than Ireland. Don't know about Finland.

I think so too.

[Jana]

Romanian infrastructure is less developed but in terms of standard of living they have overtaken Hungary.


Cherrypicked individual example.
If a large group(millions) of people spend more money than another group that is because they have more money. Lots of hungarians live paycheck to paycheck, you wanna tell me they are saving up a lot of money? How? And what for? Why do hungarians save money and why romanians don't? What a weird theory, and without evidence of course.

AIC shows how much money a household can spend. That's the very definition of living standard.


It doesn't. Do you know what GNI measures?


So the dozens of billions the government spent on lots of useless sh*t like Orbán's kisvasút, hosting overpriced swimming world cups(overpriced because the contracts are given to Orbán's oligarchs who steal the money) and countless other bullshit sport tournaments that stink from corruption, multiple overpriced brand new stadiums with 40.000 seats that are frequented by 100 people on the weekend matches are included in GNI. This kind of spending shows up in GDP too but they don't improve the standard of living, so I find them unreliable metrics.

Orban definitelly overspend on Sport Arenas. This new Puskas Stadium, what it will be, 70 000 capacity or something ?

Not much smaller than Bernabeu. And who will fill it each week ? Fradi has its own new stadium.

To my understanding it will be Hungarian Wembley , for national team only. I wonder how profitable it will be, NT plays home only few times a year and often against unattractive opponents.

I think it is too large stadium for Hungary despite Budapest is large city. And it doesnt have elite club or NT that draws huge crowds. And maintenace of such object coast a fortune probably. You cant have concerts on it because it damages expensive grass and it doesnt have athletic track so it will be minimally used. I am concerned what will come of it.

One of reasons of Greek bankrupcy were 2004 summer Olympics.

Speaking of living paycheck to paychek, we live like that too. Nothing is left at end of month. But it is pretty stress free, knowing finding new job is not hard at all. Market is good and dynamic.

In Croatia many citizens ended in financial slavery due to taking loans during early to mid 2000s economic boom, and now they cant repay them back.

Hungarians are less financially naive to my thinking. People are less willing to take out loan to buy new BMW or Mercedes, and gamble their family future afterwards. Croatian people were very naive and not responsible because Yugoslavia lived from western loans and bad habbits were created that way (just like Greece), living above their abilities.

In Croatia people dress better than Hungarians and have better cars on average, but they are locked in debts.

Our economy structure is more similar to southern European countries (great infrastructure, high unemployment rate especially among youth, relatively high salaries, high debt) than eastern european ones (weaker infrastructure, low debt, much lower unemplyment rates and relatively lower salaries).

[Universe]

I dont know, this suprises me to be honest.

This is from ATV though, it's a heavily leftist tv channel, so take it with a pinch of salt. However there's some truth to it.

[Universe]

A GNI (gross national income, magyarul bruttó nemzeti jövedelem) a GDP-ből származtatott mutató. Számítása során figyelembe veszik a külföldről kapott jövedelmeket és a levonják a kiáramlott jövedelmeket.
A mutató régebbi elnevezése GNP (vagyis gross national product, bruttó nemzeti termék).

Vagyis a GNI-nek a GDP az alapja. Mi a probléma a GDP-vel? Gulyás Marci elmagyarázza a videóban 21:45-től
Ebből következik (szerintem) hogy a GNI nem feltétlen a legmegbízhatóbb mutató az életszínvonal mérésére.

[ixulescu]

This is from ATV though, it's a heavily leftist tv channel, so take it with a pinch of salt. However there's some truth to it.

Hungarians should't discard job opportunities in Romania.
Hungarians from the Eastern parts can find good jobs in Transylvania, Banat and Crisana (Partium). Knowing Hungarian and some English is sufficient to have excellent employment in Transylvania.

It's perhaps less known to Hungarians that after ww1 the percentage of Hungarians living in Transylvania went up significantly, despite many Hungarians fleeing after Transylvania changed hands. They came to Romania for better jobs. Of course that stopped after what happened during ww2 (pogroms on both sides) and the take over by the communist regimes.