SOUTH AMERICA UPDATED GEDMATCH KITS

[luc2112]

Yes but Brazil is much bigger, so why would having a similar number of European immigrants as Argentina lead to them having a similar level of European ancestry?

The story is different from the two countries.
Argentina received more immigrants after independence, but increased by 6 times its population.
Brazil increased by +-16 times its population.

Brazil is basically 50% white/ 50% brown (which has 50% diluted euro).

[Adamastor]

Yes but Brazil is much bigger, so why would having a similar number of European immigrants as Argentina lead to them having a similar level of European ancestry?

There are many things we should keep in mind:

1) How White were Brazilian and Argentinian populations before European immigration
2) The demographic density of the regions where the immigrants settled
3) Immigrant fertility rates

I don't believe Brazil as a whole is as Euro as Argentina on average (actually these GEDmatch Brazilian results are slightly more European than Argentina); GEDmatch is representative for a portion of Brazilian population in the Southeast of Brazil, most people tested are by far from this region. You can say Southeast Brazil is like Argentina but changing Amerindian influence for SSA and Southern Brazil might be more European than Argentina in some parts. Other regions of Brazil like North and Northeast are more comparable to Colombia or Venezuela imo.

Average of Brazil would be like Puerto Rico, but regional averages of Brazil may approach or even surpass Argentinian level of europeaness. The reason why we think this similarity is surprising is because average Argentinian look much more White than average Brazilian due to a lack of SSA genes.

[Erronkari]

There are many things we should keep in mind:

1) How White were Brazilian and Argentinian populations before European immigration
2) The demographic density of the regions where the immigrants settled
3) Immigrant fertility rates

I don't believe Brazil as a whole is as Euro as Argentina on average (actually these GEDmatch Brazilian results are slightly more European than Argentina); GEDmatch is representative for a portion of Brazilian population in the Southeast of Brazil, most people tested are by far from this region. You can say Southeast Brazil is like Argentina but changing Amerindian influence for SSA and Southern Brazil might be more European than Argentina in some parts. Other regions of Brazil like North and Northeast are more comparable to Colombia or Venezuela imo.

Average of Brazil would be like Puerto Rico, but regional averages of Brazil may approach or even surpass Argentinian level of europeaness. The reason why we think this similarity is surprising is because average Argentinian look much more White than average Brazilian due to a lack of SSA genes.

All your statements are wonderful and I couldn't define them better than you.
May be I can add some comments which could help a little:
1- South Brazil is more Euro than Argentina as whole by far.
May be the countryside of pampean region (central/east Argentina) could be as white as countryside of south Brazil, but about the cities is different.
For sure Buenos Aires, Rosario or Cordoba are quite less Euro than Porto Alegre or Floripa.
I am not sure about Curitiba though...

2- Brazil recived more central and northern euro shifted inmigrants.
For that reason, about Euro side, Argentina is predominantly south-euro while Brazil is predominantly pan- euro.

3- Argentina has two provinces in the northwest side of the country which people is strongly amerindian influenced: Salta and Jujuy.
The amerindian % of the genepool of those provinces is around 60% or even more.
Probably Brazil don't have any Estado with more non-euro % genetically talking, nor Bahia, nor Maranhao...

[Tenma de Pegasus]

All your statements are wonderful and I couldn't define them better than you.
May be I can add some comments which could help a little:
1- South Brazil is more Euro than Argentina as whole by far.
May be the countryside of pampean region (central/east Argentina) could be as white as countryside of south Brazil, but about the cities is different.
For sure Buenos Aires, Rosario or Cordoba are quite less Euro than Porto Alegre or Floripa.
I am not sure about Curitiba though...

2- Brazil recived more central and northern euro shifted inmigrants.
For that reason, about Euro side, Argentina is predominantly south-euro while Brazil is predominantly pan- euro.

3- Argentina has two provinces in the northwest side of the country which people is strongly amerindian influenced: Salta and Jujuy.
The amerindian % of the genepool of those provinces is around 60% or even more.
Probably Brazil don't have any Estado with more non-euro % genetically talking, nor Bahia, nor Maranhao...

Its true White Brazilians have a significant german influence because of southerns, but still I think the existance of more pan european phenotypes among white brazilians is due to the southwest european combo(Northwest Iberia/Northern Italy). Most whites in Brazil trace their roots to the lightest parts of Portugal(Minho) and Italy(Veneto). When most argentines, despite being also part northwest iberians, they have lots of sicilian, campanian and calabrian blood too. I believe thats the main factor reducing the pan euro phenotypes among argentines and resulting in very med types there. The germanic/slavic influence would come just as a secondary reason since Argentina also has this type of people. At the same time, Uruguay dont have considerable north european population, but their white crownds also seems to have more pan euro people than argentina ones. I believe thats because white uruguayans are also northwest iberian/north italian mixes. Probably Galicia and Lombardy are the biggest sources there.

[luc2112]

I am not sure about Curitiba though...

74% white

[Adamastor]

Veneto is not Southwestern Europe genetically speaking. In some DNA companies Venetians and people with Venetian ancestry score heavily Balkanic. In MyHeritage, for example, Venetian and Friulan are included in their ''Eastern European'' (Balkan) category.

[Erronkari]

74% white

Thank you for the data, Luc!
Well... quite similar to argentine big cities (Cordoba has the same % if I am not wrong).

[Erronkari]

Its true White Brazilians have a significant german influence because of southerns, but still I think the existance of more pan european phenotypes among white brazilians is due to the southwest european combo(Northwest Iberia/Northern Italy). Most whites in Brazil trace their roots to the lightest parts of Portugal(Minho) and Italy(Veneto). When most argentines, despite being also part northwest iberians, they have lots of sicilian, campanian and calabrian blood too. I believe thats the main factor reducing the pan euro phenotypes among argentines and resulting in very med types there. The germanic/slavic influence would come just as a secondary reason since Argentina also has this type of people. At the same time, Uruguay dont have considerable north european population, but their white crownds also seems to have more pan euro people than argentina ones. I believe thats because white uruguayans are also northwest iberian/north italian mixes. Probably Galicia and Lombardy are the biggest sources there.

Yes, agree with everything.
About Uruguay... they had an important swiss immigration wave.
May be that helps to the presence of central euro looking people too...

[Duffmannn]

Yes but Brazil is much bigger, so why would having a similar number of European immigrants as Argentina lead to them having a similar level of European ancestry?

Before the european arrivals in the XIX-XX Brazil was the whitest country in Latin America.

That´s the concept of "initial impact": when there´s an scarce population, the arrival of a group, even being small, has a very strong impact in genetics.

This explain why Chile is much more whiter than Peru.

[luc2112]

Thank you for the data, Luc!
Well... quite similar to argentine big cities (Cordoba has the same % if I am not wrong).

The euro regions of Brazil (south, interior of São Paulo and south of Minas Gerais) are similar to Argentina similar per capita income and proportion of middle class population (50/55%). Other regions the proportion in middle class is smaller.