Why are Iron Age Nordics metrically closer to Volga than to Eastern Baltic?

[Voskos]

Can you run it on mdlp k16?

[Snkves]

Can you run it on mdlp k16?

[Snkves]

Mine for comparison

[Harkonnen]

Here is the Anan'ino sample from 8th century BC, Volga-Urals. Considered some sort of Finno-Ugrian.

Skull length, 186.1 mm
Skull breadth, 144.0 mm
Skull height, 136.6 mm
minimum frontal diameter, 94.0 mm
bizygomatic diameter, 134.5
Upper face height, 70.0
Orbital index 81.1
Nasal, index, 49.0

And here is Swedish Iron Age

Skull length, 189.1
Skull breadth, 137.4
Skull height, 136.7
minimum frontal diameter, 97.2
Bizygomatic diameter, 131.5
Total face height, 115.3
Upper face height, 66.6
Orbital index, 82.5
Nasal index 48.2

This is the late Bronze Age/Early Late Iron Age Estonian sample which Coon recognises as mothertype of Finnics. Especially Southern Finns are extremely close to this sample in cranial dimensions (only skull is broader) and total face height, and bizygomatic diameter.

Skull length, 195.4
Skull breadth, 142.5
Skull height, 146.7
Minimum frontal diameter, 99.4
Bizygomatic diameter, 140.2
Total face height, 126.0
Upper face height, 73.6
Orbital index, 75.1
Nasal index, 48.3

I'll also post the Kylälahti in a bit as example of more Brachy Finnic type.

[Harkonnen]

Kylälahti

Skull length, 186.2 mm
Skull breadth, 150.3 mm
Skull heigth, 144.0 mm
Minimum frontal diameter, 102.7 mm
Bizygomatic diameter, 135.0 mm
Upper face height, 73.8 mm
Orbital index, 80.6
Nasal index, 49.2

[Columella]

My current view is that the Iron Age type result from Indoeuropean speakers imposing over the EEF/ENF mixed with Mesolithic (WHG derivatives) types in Europe. Depigmentation must have happened sometimes before. It is possible then that in the Baltic area there was smaller presence of EEF.

[Sacrificed Ram]

My current view is that the Iron Age type result from Indoeuropean speakers imposing over the EEF/ENF mixed with Mesolithic (WHG derivatives) types in Europe. Depigmentation must have happened sometimes before. It is possible then that in the Baltic area there was smaller presence of EEF.

To associate Nordid types with just indo-europeans could be an error. Finns are full of Nordics. Maybe Corded Ware weren't even indo-europeans. Maybe Scandinavia became Indo-European just with arrive of of R1b-S21 yDNA during bronze age.

[Harkonnen]

To associate Nordid types with just indo-europeans could be an error. Finns are full of Nordics. Maybe Corded Ware weren't even indo-europeans. Maybe Scandinavia became Indo-European just with arrive of of R1b-S21 yDNA during bronze age.

No actually, the data I have provided, shows that Finland almost completely lacks Nordid types.

[Sacrificed Ram]

No actually, the data I have provided, shows that Finland almost completely lacks Nordid types.

Guy, I grew listening finnish symphonic power metal, I know there are a lot of ethnic finnish Nordids, you just showed only one exemplar... I need visit Finland to say the true...

[Harkonnen]

Guy, I grew listening finnish symphonic power metal, I know there are a lot of ethnic finnish Nordids, you just showed only one exemplar... I need visit Finland to say the true...

Did you have calibers to measure the skulls on those specimens? It is very hard to guestimate skull dimensions on pictures, so whatever you saw on those pics, which you associate with Nordid, could be all in your head.


The point is, the Iron Age Finns were extremely broadskulled compared to anything in Iron Age. Did you take a look at the breadth and height dimensions of those Kylälahti skulls? Their (combined height and) breadth dimensions (skull breadth, minimum frontal diameter) far exceed everything in the archaelogical records (with the exception of some Bronze Age Briton samples which were millimeter or two broader in the skull breadth category). Heck, even the Saami's were dolichocephalic in the Iron Age, and metrically closer to Iron Age Nordics than to Finns. Case in point, the Iron Age Ostrobothnian Leväluhta site. Swedish antropologists classified the Levänluhta site as Germanic:

Fredrik Wilhelm Westerlund proposed that the Levänluhta
population had been long-skulled and thus of a different ethnic origin
from the Finns. Hence, the bones were interpreted to have belonged to
people of Germanic origin.

Genetically the Levänluhta site was found to be closest to Saami people. Actually it was even little bit more Eastern than modern Saami. And modern Saami are modelled as Levänluhta+some Finnish admixture. All of the Levänluhta skulls were uniformally longskulled.
According to Finnish archaelogists Iron Age and early Medieval Tavastians were broadskulled, tall and robust. Curiously sometimes you had longskulled individuals popping up, and without exception, they were always short and had a very gracile body skeleton, the combination was so stark to typical Tavastian, that Finnish archaelogists have always considered these longskulled magic mushrooms to have belonged to some other population.