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Thread: What to call the 'British Isles'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Besides Scottish separatists, this seems hard to believe. Sure, they may consider themselves Scottish/English first and British second but that doesn't mean they don't like to be called British.
    Well, 'Scottish separatists' make up nearly half of their population, and yes, those people really do object to being called British in the political sense (even if they grudgingly accept it in a technical sense). Most English people are happy to identify as British, but like the Scots some people do (with some justification) see it as an affront to the English national identity, being that it is a largely artificial identity imposed by the state and media over the last 300 years, concurrently downplaying or disregarding the unique identities and histories of the UK's constituent nations. The BBC is at the forefront of this.

    Britishness is also less popular than ever amongst the English as a result of the revival of Scottish/Welsh nationalism, devolution and the Scottish independence movement. You might notice that until about 1996 (just after the movie Braveheart incidentally), most supporters flags at England international matches were Union Jacks. Ever since then, it's nearly entirely St George's Crosses.
    Spoiler!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Another thing to note is that the Pre-Gaelic inhabitants of Northern Ireland were called 'Cruthins'. The words 'Cruthin' and 'Britain' are most likely cognates. So a group of people in ancient Ireland referred to themselves as 'British' (with their own different pronunciation of it).

    Also, I don't really see a problem with an entity expanding its definition based on how massively influential it is. The term 'Africa' originally only referred to part of North Africa and the term 'Asia' only originally referred to a portion of West Asia before these terms expanded their definitions. 'India/Bharat' only referred to the northwestern portion of India originally. And 'Europe' originally only referred to Thrace if we go back far enough yet I don't see any Irishmen protesting over being called 'European'. Heck, even the term British has changed definition. Originally, it only referred to Brythonic people and it wasn't until significantly after the English conquest of the land that they embraced the term for themselves. The term 'British' like the term 'European' has lost all ethnic context, so if the Irish are called British, then its from a purely geographic perspective without any threat to their identity.

    Also, I never heard of any Brits protesting the name "Irish Sea" even though some of the UK's islands like the Isle of Man are in the Irish Sea.

    I'm not sure if the term 'British Isles' was popularized by imperialists, but it doesn't really matter anymore since the term 'British Isles' is seldom used to stake territorial claims as you said.



    Besides Scottish separatists, this seems hard to believe. Sure, they may consider themselves Scottish/English first and British second but that doesn't mean they don't like to be called British.
    While personally it's not an issue for me as I do use British Isles for convenience a lot of Irish don't like the term and in Ireland they don't use it. They will say Britain and Ireland or "these Isles" etc. The reasons are due to the history of British colonialism in Ireland so I think it is understandable why some Irish people have an issue with this.

    I have heard some people say the British/Irish Isles. There was also a suggestion to call them Islands of the North Atlantic (IONA).

    https://www.thejournal.ie/is-ireland...40112-Oct2013/

    I'm personally not too fussed about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    While personally it's not an issue for me as I do use British Isles for convenience a lot of Irish don't like the term and in Ireland they don't use it. They will say Britain and Ireland or "these Isles" etc. The reasons are due to the history of British colonialism in Ireland so I think it is understandable why some Irish people have an issue with this.

    I have heard some people say the British/Irish Isles. There was also a suggestion to call them Islands of the North Atlantic (IONA).

    https://www.thejournal.ie/is-ireland...40112-Oct2013/

    I'm personally not too fussed about it.
    I think the real reason the Irish don't like the term British Isles is probably because the British have a significantly more negative global reputation than the Irish do and using the term British Isles intertwines Ireland with Great Britain even more, something they wouldn't want for the reason that I mentioned. That's my impression at least.

    Although I prefer using the term "British Isles", if we were to ever change it, then it should be "Anglo-Celtic Isles", or "Avalonian Isles" like another user suggested. Or maybe "British-Irish Isles". Some of the terms used like "these isles" and "IONA" just sound beyond silly to me. For one, Ireland and GB are far from the only islands in the northern Atlantic.

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    QUOTE=Creoda;6189996]British Isles is correct. That was the original geographical designation given to the island group by Greco-Roman cartogrphers. There's no reason to change an established geographical name based on nationalist feelings 2000 years later. Besides, the independent Irish identity is secure now, regardless of the term.

    A lot of English and especially Scottish don't like to be called British either.[/QUOTE]

    I agree. I am Scottish because I am from the country of Scotland. Britain isn't a country, and neither is the UK. I have no problem at all with 'British Isles' as a geographical description.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    British Isles is correct. That was the original geographical designation given to the island group by Greco-Roman cartogrphers.
    The original Greek name for the British Isles which Pytheas determined was actually the Pretanic Isles.

    Britannia itself was not introduced as a name for the Isle of Great Britain until Caesar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    British Isles is correct. That was the original geographical designation given to the island group by Greco-Roman cartogrphers. There's no reason to change an established geographical name based on nationalist feelings 2000 years later. Besides, the independent Irish identity is secure now, regardless of the term.

    A lot of English and especially Scottish don't like to be called British either.
    Most Americans even of Irish or Scottish descent call themselves English or British which is pretty funny. The only time they call themselves Irish or Scottish is if they have Mc or Mac in their name.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    Britons are too diverse to be called anything but British
    wrong thread
    Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

    Even if this were hard--that is how it is ! Assuredly, however, by far the harder fate is that which strikes the man who thinks he can overcome Nature, but in the last analysis only mocks her. Distress, misfortune, and diseases are her answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    Most Americans even of Irish or Scottish descent call themselves English or British which is pretty funny. The only time they call themselves Irish or Scottish is if they have Mc or Mac in their name.
    Irish Catholic Americans do not call themselves English or British. Maybe your thinking of Scots-Irish Presbyterians.
    Last edited by Dawnbringer; 08-20-2019 at 04:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnbringer View Post
    The original Greek name for the British Isles which Pytheas determined was actually the Pretanic Isles.

    Britannia itself was not used for the isle of Great Britain until Caesar.
    The earliest known reference to the inhabitants of Britain seems to come from 4th-century BC records of the voyage of Pytheas, a Greek geographer who made a voyage of exploration around the British Isles between 330 and 320 BC. Although none of his own writings remain, writers during the time of the Roman Empire made much reference to them. Pytheas called the islands collectively αἱ Βρεττανίαι (hai Brettaniai), which has been translated as the Brittanic Isles; he also used the term Pretannike. The peoples of these islands were called the Πρεττανοί (Prettanoi), Priteni, Pritani or Pretani. The group included Ireland, which was referred to as Ierne (Insula sacra "sacred island" as the Greeks interpreted it) "inhabited by the race of Hiberni" (gens hibernorum), and Britain as insula Albionum, "island of the Albions".[8][9] The term Pritani may have reached Pytheas from the Gauls, who possibly used it as their term for the inhabitants of the islands.[9]
    Brittanic Isles sounds good and could be used as an alternative, but it would draw the same complaints.

    Brittanic is a more fitting title for British people and their diaspora than Germanic, Celtic, or 'Anglo', as I've said before. Brittanic meaning people from the Island of Britain and racially of that stock. Brittonic meaning speakers of Brythonic languages; historical Celtic Britons and the Welsh.
    Spoiler!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnbringer View Post
    Irish Catholic Americans do not call themselves British or Irish. Maybe your thinking of Scots-Irish Presbyterians.
    90% of Irish Americans have converted to Protestantism, the only Irish Catholics live in large cities, rare to find an Irish Catholic in average America.
    Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

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