Some Macedonians Praise Destroyers of New ‘Hellenic’ Plaques

[Mingle]

On social networks, many Macedonians have praised the unknown figures who have removed or destroyed new plaques explaining the ‘Hellenic character’ of various statues in Skopje.

Unknown perpetrators in North Macedonia have removed or smashed plaques added to several statues and monuments in Skopje – which explained that they depict historical figures “belonging to the ancient Hellenic history and civilisation and to world cultural and historic heritage”.

The action occurred just one day after the authorities put them up.

The plaque put on the statue of Alexander the Great has been destroyed altogether, media reported on Friday. So was the plaque put on the monument of Alexander’s father, Philip of Macedon.

The erection of the explanatory plaques, written in Macedonian, Albanian and English, formed part of the landmark “name” agreement signed with Greece in June 2018.

This aimed to finally resolve the decades-long dispute with Greece over the name of the country that saw it change its name from Republic of Macedonia to Republic of North Macedonia.

In exchange, Greece promised to stop blocking its neighbour’s accession to NATO and the start of its EU membership talks.

Under the agreement, North Macedonia also promised to place informative plaques on disputed monuments depicting figures from classical antiquity, which Greece considers an exclusive part of its own heritage.

The monuments were built from 2010 onwards by the previous government led by Nikola Gruevski as part of a grand revamp of the capital, dubbed Skopje 2014. While some locals like them, they further soured relations with Greece, which saw them as a provocation.

Under the “name” deal, North Macedonia also promised to remove the Vergina Sun symbol from public spaces. Also known as the Macedonian Star, it is a stylized sun with 16 triangular rays. It has been another point of dispute between the two countries.

But when local authorities in Skopje and other towns on Thursday started removing the emblems, some locals were not happy.

Media reported that one citizen in the town of Bitola had spray-painted the controversial emblem back on to manholes.

On social networks, meanwhile, many people praised those who had removed the “Hellenic” plaques, or who had repainted the sun symbol back where it once had been.

“Bravo! That’s the way to go,” Dobrila Doreska wrote on Facebook, praising the unknown man who had spray-painted the Vergina Sun back in Bitola.

“Is there anything of Macedonian landmarks that is left to destroy?” Trajce Ognjanov asked dramatically on Facebook.

Some comments were more aggressive, especially towards Prime Minister Zoran Zaev, one of the key architects of the agreement with Greece.

Under a news article that accused Zaev of trying to “change history,” Facebook user Anita Stojanovska wrote: “They should catch you and tattoo the flag [presumably the one with the Vergina Sun] all over your body, you freak. That would be your biggest punishment”.

North Macedonia removed the sun symbol from its national flag in 1995, to ease relations with its neighbour. But it is still widely used by nationalists in north Macedonia. However, they remain free to continue using it, as the deal does not include a ban on its private use.

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https://balkaninsight.com/2019/08/16...rth-macedonia/

[Uski]

The prespa agreement, although it did normalise relations with greece, has destroyed a large part of the countries nation building efforts and acheavements,
The maks need to nation build on something else now, and the best option would probably be the vmro fighters, delcev sandanski those folk. Also with albanian in as an official lingua, efforts to better relations with the ethnic minorities is imo a good solution.
Imagine a sort of lebanon, (or maybe even a federation?)

Time will tell

[Crn Volk]

This was bound to happen and will keep happening.

[Crn Volk]

The prespa agreement, although it did normalise relations with greece, has destroyed a large part of the countries nation building efforts and acheavements,
The maks need to nation build on something else now, and the best option would probably be the vmro fighters, delcev sandanski those folk. Also with albanian in as an official lingua, efforts to better relations with the ethnic minorities is imo a good solution.
Imagine a sort of lebanon, (or maybe even a federation?)

Time will tell

I think Macedonian Albanian relations are improving nicely. Hopefully it continues. I think we have some joint struggles in the past that should be celebrated more eg. Ohrid-Debar Uprising, Albanian members of VMRO, Albanians fighting alongside Macedonians in Krusevo, Macedonia-Albanian partisans etc. There's more that can be done.

[MegaArgus1]

I would not dispute that Alexander belongs to the Hellenic civilisation. I also would not dispute that the Hellenic civilisation along with Roman civilisation and on belongs to the cultural and historical heritage of the people and the state of Republic of Macedonia. How it could not be? Macedonia had been divided during the Balkan wars but that doesn’t mean that Macedonians and Macedonian history can be misinterpreted as Greek or Bulgarian.

[Div]

About Alexander being Greek:

I don't like this game, because while the Ethnos did exist back then (there was a collective Greek and Celtic identity for example) what we consider to be "Greek" now is under the post-enlightenment and nation state paradigm. Ethnicity has become institutionalized into a civic ideal. This did not exist at all among the various city states and tribes that made up the various regions of Hellas.

What does it mean to be Greek today?? Up until the 1900s in some places people who spoke Greek considered themselves to be Romans, and now we see this idea of people being Greek? This has gotten so popular, that there is even a Greek church seperate from Constantinople. I have done some research into what being "Greek" really means. And I've traced it to Neopagan ideas stemming from the occultist Plethon.

Long story short: Alexander isn't Greek or Slav or Albanian, also this whole controversy over statues in Macedonia is silly. Grow up. To my Iliridan brothers and sisters: stay neutral, let them tire themselves out.

[Crn Volk]

About Alexander being Greek:

I don't like this game, because while the Ethnos did exist back then (there was a collective Greek and Celtic identity for example) what we consider to be "Greek" now is under the post-enlightenment and nation state paradigm. Ethnicity has become institutionalized into a civic ideal. This did not exist at all among the various city states and tribes that made up the various regions of Hellas.

What does it mean to be Greek today?? Up until the 1900s in some places people who spoke Greek considered themselves to be Romans, and now we see this idea of people being Greek? This has gotten so popular, that there is even a Greek church seperate from Constantinople. I have done some research into what being "Greek" really means. And I've traced it to Neopagan ideas stemming from the occultist Plethon.

Long story short: Alexander isn't Greek or Slav or Albanian, also this whole controversy over statues in Macedonia is silly. Grow up. To my Iliridan brothers and sisters: stay neutral, let them tire themselves out.

We never tire.

[Uski]

About Alexander being Greek:

I don't like this game, because while the Ethnos did exist back then (there was a collective Greek and Celtic identity for example) what we consider to be "Greek" now is under the post-enlightenment and nation state paradigm. Ethnicity has become institutionalized into a civic ideal. This did not exist at all among the various city states and tribes that made up the various regions of Hellas.

What does it mean to be Greek today?? Up until the 1900s in some places people who spoke Greek considered themselves to be Romans, and now we see this idea of people being Greek? This has gotten so popular, that there is even a Greek church seperate from Constantinople. I have done some research into what being "Greek" really means. And I've traced it to Neopagan ideas stemming from the occultist Plethon.

Long story short: Alexander isn't Greek or Slav or Albanian, also this whole controversy over statues in Macedonia is silly. Grow up. To my Iliridan brothers and sisters: stay neutral, let them tire themselves out.

To be honest we are treated better than ever in this country as of now, compared to past governments? Ohh boy. From our POV the most dangerous thing that can happend is a union with bulgaria, we would be screwed then. This fighting with the greeks theyre doing isnt too serious these days it seems.
All in all a lot has changed for Albanians in the region, just in 2018 albanian became official, we almost had a deal with serbia, tuzi became a municipality, and other things.

Maybe 5 years ago i would have supported us leaving macedonia under gruevski, but as of now i feel a lot more at home here, plus when we enter the eu, in practical terms greater albania will be formed without ANY more wars.

[Petros Houhoulis]

On social networks, many idiots have praised the unknown figures who have removed or destroyed new plaques explaining the ‘Hellenic character’ of various statues in Skopje.

The real question is whose idiots' fault is it anyway? Those idiots who somehow imagined that those abominations in the center of Uskub somehow resemble any sort of Ancient figures in a historically accurate manner, or the other morons who are destroying those plaques because they somehow believe that these abominations represent their history...

Let's take a closer look. What was the armor of the Ancient Macedonians, and in particular of Alexander the Great? Answer: Linothorax.

This is how Alexander the Great was depicted in Pompeii:



This is the Linothorax found in the royal tombs of Vergina, some suggest it was the one worn by Alexander the Great himself, if not it was certainly worn by by his immediate family:




Now, take a look at "Acko Babachko" in Uskub:



WTF is this??? Only the testicles of the horse are accurate!!!

Why doesn't he wear a linothorax, but instead he wears a cuirass???

https://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Roma.../dp/B00IVP7IAG


This is described as "Medieval Roman Greek Muscle Body Armor Cuirass Black", so I guess that the fools copied it on the basis of being Greek, without to realize that not all Greeks were using the same weapons and armor... The Macedonian royal family which rode on cavalry (as the typical nobles of every era) certainly didn't... So that statue might be someone like Pelopidas or Chabrias or Jason of Pherae, but not Alexander the Great.

There are no excuses either, the findings from Vergina are known some decades now, and unlike older statues of Alexander the Great, those goons had the chance to make a realistic one, but failed miserably (as they do with everything anyway)

Then we have the statue of "Philo Babachko", which is somewhat closer to an Ancient Macedonian:



Nevertheless, the differences from the actual linothorax are evident: The Bands do not join at the center as in the statue but attach to different points, and there is of course no "Vergina Star" in the actual linothorax, because that symbol was not Macedonian. The helmet is a small atrocity of its' own. Phillip II probably used a Phrygian helmet as a cavalryman or a Corinthian helmet as a hoplite. Alexander the Great preferred a Boeotian helmet as a cavalryman. The helmet of "Philo Babachko" is an Illyrian helmet, which, contrary to its' name, originated in the Peloponesse!!!

We also have this "Philo Babachko" who raises his fists as if going to war, but he forgot his armor!!! He wonders around with a sword, but no shield...



All of these are hilarious. If anybody wonders how a historically accurate statue would look like, take a look at the statue of Phillip II in Thessaloniki. if you look closely, even his blinded eye is accurate:



In short folks, you'd better name those statues you have in Uskub as "some weird statues of vague people from the old times" because they don't look like Macedonian, and I have no fucking idea of what they are and whom they represent... Because as a Macedonian I am offended when they describe those abominations as "Macedonian" of any sort...

[Petros Houhoulis]

The prespa agreement, although it did normalise relations with greece, has destroyed a large part of the countries nation building efforts and acheavements,
The maks need to nation build on something else now, and the best option would probably be the vmro fighters, delcev sandanski those folk. Also with albanian in as an official lingua, efforts to better relations with the ethnic minorities is imo a good solution.
Imagine a sort of lebanon, (or maybe even a federation?)

Time will tell

Do you know what the fuck happened to Lebanon???