Ireland's Population Was in Serious Decline Before the Vikings

[JamesBond007]

I don't doubt there is some Viking blood in Ireland. The parts of Scotland with Viking blood are the Orkneys/Shetlands/Hebrides. I think mainland Scotland doesn't have much. They had much larger bases in Ireland than the Scottish mainland.



What Scotland would have more of is Anglo-Saxon input but so would Wales. I'm not so sure about actual Celtic input in the Isles. There was some of course but I'm now actually thinking that France, Spain etc are in fact more Celtic genetically. I think that is quite possible. Irish, Scots, Welsh etc cluster too much with the English, Dutch, Scandinavians etc. This is due to similarity in the Bronze Age IMO.

Agreed, some Gedmatch calculators give me Dutch and English and depending on what datasheet I use I my single closest population is the Dutch or Norwegians. I'm tired of these calculators. I just use common sense. My Father's name is Scottish Gordon and his mother was English and he might have some ancestors on the paternal side from Donegal which clusters with West Scotland closely and my mother is Celto-Germanic. Not only that but people in real life have told me "you're Scottish not English" and "You are Braveheart era Scottish". One Italian American called me a WASP but I'm obviously not English so it must be Scottish. Anyway, I'm trusting humans over these genetic calculators although some of them do tell me I'm Scottish. I had one genetic report done by LM Genetics by Lukasz and it nailed me as Scottish but my lowland Scottish Anglo-Saxon stuff was causing me to cluster with the Dutch as well. I'm sick of genetic tests !

[quote[It will be interesting when some of these studies do come out. Ireland has some really good geneticists and Trinity has a really good Genetics Department which is why some good studies have come out of Ireland and will be coming out of Ireland in the future.[/QUOTE]

Cool

[PaleoEuropean]

Picts were just the same as the Gaels i.e. a Bell Beaker derived population. Picts also most likely spoke a Brythonic Celtic language similar to the rest of Britain. They weren't some Neolithic holdout.

Picts were just the same as the Gaels i.e. a Bell Beaker derived population. Picts also most likely spoke a Brythonic Celtic language similar to the rest of Britain. They weren't some Neolithic holdout.

Studies have shown that Scotland's genetic landscape hasn't changed much and that the ethnic landscape is quite unique. Even if they came from a similar parent culture doesn't mean they are ethnically the same; most of us Europeans practice Judean-Christian Semitic culture that doesn't make us Semites. Nothing is black and white, even my own views or evidences. Theories are just that, theories. :

[Grace O'Malley]

Agreed, some Gedmatch calculators give me Dutch and English and depending on what datasheet I use I my single closest population is the Dutch or Norwegians. I'm tired of these calculators. I just use common sense. My Father's name is Scottish Gordon and his mother was English and he might have some ancestors on the paternal side from Donegal which clusters with West Scotland closely and my mother is Celto-Germanic. Not only that but people in real life have told me "you're Scottish not English" and "You are Braveheart era Scottish". One Italian American called me a WASP but I'm obviously not English so it must be Scottish. Anyway, I'm trusting humans over these genetic calculators although some of them do tell me I'm Scottish. I had one genetic report done by LM Genetics by Lukasz and it nailed me as Scottish but my lowland Scottish Anglo-Saxon stuff was causing me to cluster with the Dutch as well. I'm sick of genetic tests !

[quote[It will be interesting when some of these studies do come out. Ireland has some really good geneticists and Trinity has a really good Genetics Department which is why some good studies have come out of Ireland and will be coming out of Ireland in the future.

Cool[/QUOTE]

You seem a typical American mix to me from what you're saying. Just because you cluster somewhere doesn't mean you take on that ethnicity. I've clustered with different populations but I know my ancestry very well. You go by paper trail and the knowledge of your family tree not where you cluster but I'm sure you really do know this but are having a bit of fun by saying you are French at one point, then English, then Cornish, then Dutch and now Scottish. You have mixed British Isles/German/French ancestry. That's all a great mix.

[Grace O'Malley]

Studies have shown that Scotland's genetic landscape hasn't changed much and that the ethnic landscape is quite unique. Even if they came from a similar parent culture doesn't mean they are ethnically the same; most of us Europeans practice Judean-Christian Semitic culture that doesn't make us Semites. Nothing is black and white, even my own views or evidences. Theories are just that, theories. :

Scottish genetics is not unique. It is just very similar to their neighbours. Populations don't cluster together if they are somewhat unique. I know people might like to feel "unique" but Scots aren't like the Basques, Sardinians or Saami people etc.

The Bronze Age populations are what really had a big effect on the Isles and also other Northern Europeans. There might be some Gaulish or Belgic input re the Celts as has been discussed in other threads but the Picts were not some unique population. They would have been similar to the other Britons at the time. They will have Picts to analyse at some point and they will just be the same as other people from the same period. The Picts didn't disappear they just became Scots when the Gaels and Picts merged.

[Daco Celtic]

Anyway getting back to my original post I really don't think anyone can say the Vikings boosted Ireland's population. What I really would like to know now is the amount of Celtic input into the Irish. I hope that sort of thing will be answered in the future. Also Celtic input into other countries.

I'm also hoping the Cassidy thesis will be released tomorrow so I hope it being a weekend doesn't delay this.

Demand reparations from Denmark for Viking terrorism. It's only fair.

[Grace O'Malley]

Demand reparations from Denmark for Viking terrorism. It's only fair.

To be fair to the Danes they have already apologised. The Danes a great bunch of lads.

The Danish culture minister, Brian Mikkelson, who was in Dublin to participate in celebrations marking the arrival of a replica Norse longboat, apologised for the invasion and destruction inflicted. "In Denmark we are certainly proud of this ship, but we are not proud of the damages to the people of Ireland that followed in the footsteps of the Vikings," Mr Mikkelson declared in his welcoming speech delivered on the dockside at the river Liffey. "But the warmth and friendliness with which you greet us today and the Viking ship show us that, luckily, it has all been forgiven."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/16/ireland

[TheOldNorth]

whats very odd about this is that this is around the time Primitive Irish transformed into Old Irish, which was a huge linguistic leap

[TheOldNorth]

Seeing as my mom consistently gets mistaken as Scandinavian on G25, I want to formerly speak out against Viking rape. It was wrong. The sanctity of Irish women > Vikings

wasn't always rape, sometimes it was political marriages, but yes, not a fan of that