Communism should be given a chance

[MissMischief]

In much of the Western world, especially the United States, it would be political suicide to even mention Communism as a viable form of government. Critics often refer to the failures of the Soviet Union, or injustices in Maoist China as a reason to reject Communism as a brutal, dangerous, and archaic system. I also think it's important to note that practically any attempt to form a communist or socialist government in recent history has been thwarted by Western powers, often favouring fascist leaders, making it near-impossible for them to thrive.

I believe that this modern fear and mass rejection of communist theory comes from the fear of injustices in 20th century adaptations of "communism". A major example of this is the Red Scare and McCarthyism. My argument, however, is that this hatred of Communism comes from outrage at a state which wasn't faithfully communist.

The USSR failed to faithfully implement Communism, instead undertaking what could be described as "state-capitalism", where an authoritarian government controls commerce. However, throughout the history of the USSR, we see the proletariat oppressed and controlled.

The Communist Manifesto ends with "Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win." Surely this would mean that a faithful communist state should be liberating its people, rather than continuing to maintain a hierarchical state of government. Josef Stalin may have been General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, but really, I believe that party was far from a communist state. There continued to be a wealth divide between the political elites and the proletariat, rather than providing as strong living standard as possible for all citizens.

I believe that it is dangerous and destructive for those with far-left political beliefs to idolize the USSR and Maoist China. These authoritarian regimes failed to bring the power to the proletarian, but instead transferred the power to the political elites. Throughout history, communist states have mostly taken an authoritarian approach, however I believe that, for the worker to truly be liberated, then the individual, no matter their class or position in society, should be given equal power. A faithful communist state should provide for everybody, no matter their position in society, and eliminate the power divide between the rich and the poor.

I would like to see a modern society implement socialist and communist ideals without becoming an authoritarian state. I believe that "wage-labour" should be abolished and instead everybody should be provided for by the population as a whole. In a faithful communist state, the worker shouldn't be exploited by the bourgeois, or by the government, and should never have to risk being subjected to poverty. Self-expression should be a basic right. I don't believe this has been implemented anywhere on a large scale, however I think this would be the best form of government and should be given a chance in the Western world.

[sean]

Communism is literally the reason why Eastern European countries are shitholes today. The ideology put external pressure on certain groups, encouraging them more than others, namely the lower classes. One of the reasons Europe became what it did out of the dark ages/middle ages was because the upper classes replaced the lower, and communism goes about doing the complete opposite. It's ideas are rooted in equality, a foolish idea because people aren't born equal, they have different levels of intellectual and physical ability.

[ixulescu]

The USSR failed to faithfully implement Communism, instead undertaking what could be described as "state-capitalism", where an authoritarian government controls commerce. However, throughout the history of the USSR, we see the proletariat oppressed and controlled.

Do you also believe that Nazi Germany failed to faithfully implement nazism/fascism?
Should we try that again too?

[El_Abominacion]

There is no Separating Marxist ideologies from authoritarianism. The proof is in the pudding.


Ironically, the idiots today in ‘Antifa’ screaming for communism and socialism are proving that point, all they do is beat up people who disagree with them and random elderly/disabled folks. The main demographic that a socialist state benefits are lazy fat cunts who don’t want to work, and instead live off of wealth generated from the people that do work.

[Universe]

Communism is literally the reason why Eastern European countries are shitholes today. The ideology put external pressure on certain groups, encouraging them more than others, namely the lower classes. One of the reasons Europe became what it did out of the dark ages/middle ages was because the upper classes replaced the lower, and communism goes about doing the complete opposite. It's ideas are rooted in equality, a foolish idea because people aren't born equal, they have different levels of intellectual and physical ability.

I am not taking side in the debate that OP started, but

1)Those countries never had communism. They had socialism, which is a transitional phase between capitalism and communism.
2)They're not "shitholes".
3)They were already less developed/poorer than Western European countries before the 1945-1990 socialist era.

[PAGANE]

Democracy- The word democracy comes from the Greek words "demos" meaning people, and "kratos" meaning power; and thus democracy can be defined as the "power of the people": a mode of government that depends on the will of the people. And so in ancient Greece, democracy meant the right of the free, free, full-fledged population, the free people of the cities-states-Demos to own, to govern slaves-not the free population. Let us not forget that in ancient Greece, slavery was used when this term originated. Today, not much has changed in the meaning of the term. Today, large, strong economic states rule over small and underdeveloped economies. Large economies have shattered the economies of small economies in order to rule and use them as market territories. People are born equal and only society makes them unequal. Communism is a utopia, but socialism could have been a reality, but it was misused.

[ixulescu]

1)Those countries never had communism. They had socialism, which is a transitional phase between capitalism and communism.
2)They're not "shitholes".
3)They were already less developed/poorer than Western European countries before socialism.

I disagree with points 1 and 3.
Eastern Europe had full blown communism, with no "private means of production". This was implemented by force from the beginning, through nationalization and imprisonment of former owners. Socialism are just left wing doctrines that work in capitalism. There was nothing capitalist about communist Eastern Europe.

Also, all these countries were growing very fast before ww2 and were on a path of industrialization and economic convergence with the West. There is little doubt that these countries would have been at least on the same level of economic development of Spain and Italy if communism wouldn't been forced onto these countries by the Soviets.

[alnortedelsur]

NO, Fuck it!

[unseen]

However, throughout the history of the USSR, we see the proletariat oppressed and controlled.

What can you offer?

Do you think the proletarians can rule by themselves?

After all, those proletarians who become government will no longer be proletarians.

[CordedWhelp]

There’s no sliding in or around it with logic of “well, they didn’t do it right!”

Doesn’t matter though. There will never be a new socialist or communist state again. Mark my words.