England and the Netherlands which population is genetically more northern

[Rico33]

Have you lived amongst English/Dutch people or is that just an observation from this forum? The English likely are darker eyed on average, to go along with them being slightly more southern shifted, but there's nothing to suggest the difference in eye colouration is very big. I agree of course that the Dutch are noticeably lighter haired, due to being more Germanic.

Many of the famous Dutch footballers & managers from recent years - darker eyes amongst them are maybe not as uncommon as you think:

Ruud van Nistelrooy


Marco van Basten


Mark van Bommel


Robin van Persie


Arjen Robben


Marc Overmars


Klaas-Jan Huntelaar


Joris Mathijsen


Stefan de Vrij


Ron Vlaar


Wesley Sneijder


Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink


Guus Hiddink


Wim Jonk


John van't Schip


Tim Krul

In the Netherlands there is still a rumor that Southern Dutch and Belgians are darker because of local women being raped during the Spanish occupation.

[Roy]

Have you lived amongst English/Dutch people or is that just an observation from this forum? The English likely are darker eyed on average, to go along with them being slightly more southern shifted, but there's nothing to suggest the difference in eye colouration is very big. I agree of course that the Dutch are noticeably lighter haired, due to being more Germanic.

Many of the famous Dutch footballers & managers from recent years - darker eyes amongst them are maybe not as uncommon as you think:

Ruud van Nistelrooy


Marco van Basten


Mark van Bommel


Robin van Persie


Arjen Robben


Marc Overmars


Klaas-Jan Huntelaar


Joris Mathijsen


Stefan de Vrij


Ron Vlaar


Wesley Sneijder


Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink


Guus Hiddink


Wim Jonk


John van't Schip


Tim Krul

I've been to both countries

[Creoda]

In the Netherlands there is still a rumor that Southern Dutch and Belgians are darker because of local women being raped during the Spanish occupation.

Obviously not true, but the Southern Netherlands + Belgium was like Southern Britain colonised by the Romans, so that might have something to do with it, although I think it's mostly because those areas are heavily Celtic, as opposed to the almost purely Germanic North Dutch.

[Gwydion]

Are the Dutch more genetically northern than all English or are Northern English/Lowland Scots (old Northumbrians in SE Scotland) more northern than the Dutch?

[Rico33]

Obviously not true, but the Southern Netherlands + Belgium was like Southern Britain colonised by the Romans, so that might have something to do with it, although I think it's mostly because those areas are heavily Celtic, as opposed to the almost purely Germanic North Dutch.

Heavily Celtic? But in other threads I read how pale those people are, like the Irish. I don't think there were ever enough actual Romans to dominate this region. I think this is a Frankish trait. Some sources claim that the Frankish come from around the black sea. And not Scandinavia.

[Creoda]

Heavily Celtic? But in other threads I read how pale those people are, like the Irish. I don't think there were ever enough actual Romans to dominate this region. I think this is a Frankish trait. Some sources claim that the Frankish come from around the black sea. And not Scandinavia.

I mean Celts from Central Europe and Gaul, who would have been darker and more Med-like than the native Bell Beaker descended peoples of the Netherlands and Britain.

[Rico33]

Are the Dutch more genetically northern than all English or are Northern English/Lowland Scots (old Northumbrians in SE Scotland) more northern than the Dutch?

It depends on whether you mean northern or Southern Dutch.

[Creoda]

I've been to both countries

Well I can't say I notice much difference in eyes between closely related NW European peoples. The disparity in hair and skin pigmentation is much more noticeable.

A blue vs brown eyes map from 23andme. England and the Netherlands are similar, Ireland and Denmark are a bit bluer than both.

[Roy]

Well I can't say I notice much difference in eyes between closely related NW European peoples. The disparity in hair and skin pigmentation is much more noticeable.

A blue vs brown eyes map from 23andme. England and the Netherlands are similar, Ireland and Denmark are a bit bluer than both.

So you think that people in England have circa 80% of light eyes? Because this is the lowest estimate for the Netherlands that could be possible. English people have roughly the same hair & eyes pigmentation (save for having more gingers) as people in Poland and ... Dutch definitely strike me as lighter in every way than people here.

[Creoda]

So you think that people in England have circa 80% of light eyes? Because this is the lowest estimate for the Netherlands that could be possible. English people have roughly the same hair & eyes pigmentation (save for having more gingers) as people in Poland and ... Dutch definitely strike me as lighter in every way than people here.

How is that the lowest estimate that could be possible?

The Dutch are not Scandinavians, only North Dutch are Scandinavian-like and they are a minority of the population. South Dutch are more Mediterranean shifted than the English, and more of the Dutch population is in the South. Only Scandinavians and Balts seem to reliably always come out over 80% light eyed in the stats I've seen, Irish and Scots in some. From my own perspective before looking at stats I guessed the English were around 3/4 light eyed, and the stats corroborate that. The Dutch are not much higher, if higher at all.