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Thread: Was Sif originally the norse sun goddess?

  1. #11
    Veteran Member TheOldNorth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    Considering the history of those start long after indo-Europeans and trace to the bronze age when all cultures and ethnicities were meshed, makes it pretty bold to say their origins aren't local. Similarities exist across the religious spectrum and the fact we speak a language doesn't make all things interconnected we all speak English on this site and hardly any of us are English. Language spreads through trade. The old notion of everything is indo-European is way outdated and was propagated by scientists who in todays standard would be mostly considered pseudo-scientists. There isn't a consensus is religious anthropology about anything. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. All those Gods have majorly different stories unique to the areas tthey are native to. The basics of pagan and shamanistic religions are boiler plate and to distinguish one from the other and say this was the first thunder god or this god is that god is dubious when most have little to do with each other the deeper you go.
    Excuse me but what? The indo Europeans were one during the Bronze Age, but not ALL people, you’d have to go to the early Stone Age in order to come to when all humans are one major ethnic group...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldNorth View Post
    Excuse me but what? The indo Europeans were one during the Bronze Age, but not ALL people, you’d have to go to the early Stone Age in order to come to when all humans are one major ethnic group...
    Indo-Europeans weren't one people during the bronze age, they were already highly mixed and came from a diverse group of people. The last time Indo-Europeans were one people was the stone age, if they were even ever one people. All pagan religions are highly localized, the story of Zeus has nothing to with the story of Thor.
    Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

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    Veteran Member TheOldNorth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    Indo-Europeans weren't one people during the bronze age, they were already highly mixed and came from a diverse group of people. The last time Indo-Europeans were one people was the stone age, if they were even ever one people. All pagan religions are highly localized, the story of Zeus has nothing to with the story of Thor.
    the bronze age is a long time, during its beginning they were one people, by it's end, they were many

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldNorth View Post
    the bronze age is a long time, during its beginning they were one people, by it's end, they were many
    Indo-Europeans come from many different groups and started coming to Europe during the Copper age, they were most certainly not a single people during the bronze age.
    Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

    Even if this were hard--that is how it is ! Assuredly, however, by far the harder fate is that which strikes the man who thinks he can overcome Nature, but in the last analysis only mocks her. Distress, misfortune, and diseases are her answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldNorth View Post
    Excuse me but what? The indo Europeans were one during the Bronze Age, but not ALL people, you’d have to go to the early Stone Age in order to come to when all humans are one major ethnic group...
    Agreed. Notice how in Greco-Roman myth, Venus-Aphrodite arose from the ocean after a battle between the gods and titans. She is the mother of Eros-Cupid the god of love who carries a bow and arrow. In Hinduism, Lakshmi arose from the Milk-Ocean (Sanskrit. Ksheersagara) after a battle between the Devas and Asuras. Lakshmi is the mother of Kama, the god of love who bears a flowery bow and arrows.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Óttar View Post
    Agreed. Notice how in Greco-Roman myth, Venus-Aphrodite arose from the ocean after a battle between the gods and titans. She is the mother of Eros-Cupid the god of love who carries a bow and arrow. In Hinduism, Lakshmi arose from the Milk-Ocean (Sanskrit. Ksheersagara) after a battle between the Devas and Asuras. Lakshmi is the mother of Kama, the god of love who bears a flowery bow and arrows.
    interesting parallel, but aphrodite was likely a borrowing from phonecian astarte, who is a borrowing from babylonian ishtar... this can be seen in how aphrodite was originally only a spartan goddess (sparta being the closest mainland city-state to phonecia) who was originally very warlike, somewhat like if athena was more like ares

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    Indo-Europeans come from many different groups and started coming to Europe during the Copper age, they were most certainly not a single people during the bronze age.
    well i was including the copper age into the broader bronze age, which it can be considered the earliest part of by some

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldNorth View Post
    interesting parallel, but aphrodite was likely a borrowing from phonecian astarte, who is a borrowing from babylonian ishtar... this can be seen in how aphrodite was originally only a spartan goddess (sparta being the closest mainland city-state to phonecia) who was originally very warlike, somewhat like if athena was more like ares
    I don't quite understand exactly why this parallel between Aphrodite and Eros and Lakshmi and Kama exists then. Also considering Lakshmi is the goddess of wealth, she's not associated with romantic or sexual love.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldNorth View Post
    well i was including the copper age into the broader bronze age, which it can be considered the earliest part of by some
    Regardless they weren't a single people nor did they come in a single wave. We know too that the Yamanya weren't even closely related to Eastern Steppe people who were actually Indo-Aryan by all standards.


    https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/...orse-1.6196288


    https://dlc.hypotheses.org/807

    "Populations in northern and central Europe were composed of a mixture of the earlier hunter-gatherer and Neolithic farmer groups, but received ‘Caucasian’ genetic input at the onset of the Bronze Age (Fig. 2). This coincides with the archaeologically well-defined expansion of the Yamnaya culture from the Pontic-Caspian steppe into Europe (Figs 1 and 2). This admixture event resulted in the formation of peoples of the Corded Ware …

    the resulting Corded Ware culture in Europe was the result of admixture with the local Neolithic people."
    No single culture or language is the ancestor of our modern cultures and languages.
    Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

    Even if this were hard--that is how it is ! Assuredly, however, by far the harder fate is that which strikes the man who thinks he can overcome Nature, but in the last analysis only mocks her. Distress, misfortune, and diseases are her answer.

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