Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Do you think that Balkan Dardanians might be one/or related to Trojan Dardanians?

  1. #21
    Veteran Member wvwvw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Online
    03-02-2024 @ 11:38 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Homo neogrecous
    Ethnicity
    Yes
    Country
    Japan
    Region
    Acadia
    mtDNA
    H
    Politics
    oh look. the curve is flattening.
    Age
    36
    Gender
    Posts
    31,839
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,431
    Given: 241

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by valentinavalley2 View Post
    Do you know what colonisation means?
    It is possible to learn other languages.
    There is plenty of evidence to suggest they were possibly Hittite other speakers. Ancient languages in north west turkey have been found not to be related to Greek such as the Luwian language.
    The source of Trojans being Greeks is based on “colonisation” and the Iliad being in Greek language, but that doesn’t mean they were Greek, most likely Greeks committed mass genocide on them.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    All they found was a Luwian seal which is not even significant because it was found in a later layer (containing minoan and myceanean pottery). A similar Luwian seal is known from Mycenae.

    That doesn’t make them Hittites. It’s like saying since Egyptian paintings have been found in Pompey that makes Southern Italians Egyptians.

    There was also no Luwian language in the seal only a Luwian seal with Luwian letters. Trojans had Greek names and a Greek culture and worshipped the same Gods as the Greeks. Long before the Aeolian and Ionian migrations Aegean Islands and most of the coast of Asia-Minor was already Greek and admitted to being Greek by the Hittites.

    The whole Asia Minor was Minoan before it was Myceanean. Minoan presense to Troy and Asia aminor date to 3000 BC.

    The geneology of Trojans is well known as to leave any doubt. Herodotus identifies the Trojans with Teucrians and Strabo identifies the Teucrians with Cretans. With Trojan kings with names like Alexander recorded by the Hittites their origin couldn't be more obvious. Every shred of archaeological evidence from Troy show Greek culture. Luwia was nowhere Troy.

    Les Troyens étaient des Grecs
    http://www.portique.net/spip.php?article54

  2. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Last Online
    04-26-2022 @ 04:23 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Hellenic
    Ethnicity
    Greek
    Country
    Greece
    Gender
    Posts
    1,649
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 818
    Given: 824

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by valentinavalley2 View Post
    Hittite yes I agree with that, and possibly Balkan, but I don’t believe they were Greek, however they might have mixed with some Greeks. Hittites makes a lot of sense but Balkan Dardanians and Paeonians makes even more sense...

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    In the epic poem Iliad, the Trojans speak Homeric Greek.
    If the Trojan Elite were not Greek, why did they fluently speak the Greek language and trade with the Mycenaeans?

    The Trojans in the Iliad have no difficulty in speaking to the Greeks: For example, Trojan Aeneas converses without difficulty both with Punic Dido and with Latin Turnus.

    Greek legend gives further indications on the subject of language at Troy. For one thing, the allies of Troy, listed at length in the Trojan Battle Order which closes book 2 of the Iliad, are depicted as speaking various languages and thus needing to have orders translated to them by their commanders (2.802–806). Elsewhere in the poem (4.433–438) they are compared to sheep and lambs bleating in a field as they talk together in their different languages. The inference is that, from the Greek point of view, the languages of Trojans and their allied neighbors were not as unified as those of the Achaeans.

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Last Online
    07-11-2020 @ 03:40 AM
    Ethnicity
    Basarab Laiota
    Country
    Moldova
    Y-DNA
    I2 (Carpathian)
    Gender
    Posts
    7,568
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,206
    Given: 1,745

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by valentinavalley2 View Post
    I don’t want an argument here... but they do actually have a lot in common with one another, and let’s not forget they are geographically close to each other

    For myself I’m going to say yes... if not one, surely related.

    I want to make a poll for this but I don’t know how


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Albanians not all related with people of Troy, they came from Caucasus mountains later and stole my shine

  4. #24
    Veteran Member wvwvw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Online
    03-02-2024 @ 11:38 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Homo neogrecous
    Ethnicity
    Yes
    Country
    Japan
    Region
    Acadia
    mtDNA
    H
    Politics
    oh look. the curve is flattening.
    Age
    36
    Gender
    Posts
    31,839
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,431
    Given: 241

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mens-Sarda View Post
    It's really possible

    During the age of Herodotus in various mountainous area of continental Greece it was still spoken the Pelasgian language, and he describes it as a totally unintelligible language.
    That’s not how he describes it. Herodotus was discussion the origin of the Hellenic race and that race he considered to be a branch of the Pelasgic race. He uses the term barbarian to refer to people who did not speak the Hellenic dialect of Greek. It was also used by the Athenians to refer to those who did not speak the Attic dialect of Greek.

    Hellenic was a specific set of Greek dialects and Pelasgic was another set of Greek dialects. All the Hellenic dialects, Doric, Aeolic, Achaean and Attic-Ionic were descended from Pelasgian i.e Mycenean Greek. The Pelasgians were an Arcadian tribe that did not multiply much. The Hellenes were nomadic and they multiplied much.

    In Herodotus time Pelasgians was still spoken by the Pelasgians beside Thrace and in Creston (Italy) above the Tyrrhenians and everywhere else Pelasgians lived. Herodotus heard the language because he visited these places and know that it was common to all Pelasgians and that Greek was descended from it, whereas it bore no relation to any other languages.

    Herodotus had heard Pelsagian and he knew that Greek was directly descended from it and apart from the Hellenes nobody spoke anything similar to it, not even the Italians and Tyrrhenians or the Carians.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Last Online
    11-12-2019 @ 06:56 AM
    Ethnicity
    European
    Country
    Algeria
    Gender
    Posts
    686
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 138
    Given: 0

    0 Not allowed!

    Default Do you think that Balkan Dardanians might be one/or related to Trojan Dardanians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Epirus DNA View Post
    In the epic poem Iliad, the Trojans speak Homeric Greek.
    If the Trojan Elite were not Greek, why did they fluently speak the Greek language and trade with the Mycenaeans?

    The Trojans in the Iliad have no difficulty in speaking to the Greeks: For example, Trojan Aeneas converses without difficulty both with Punic Dido and with Latin Turnus.

    Greek legend gives further indications on the subject of language at Troy. For one thing, the allies of Troy, listed at length in the Trojan Battle Order which closes book 2 of the Iliad, are depicted as speaking various languages and thus needing to have orders translated to them by their commanders (2.802–806). Elsewhere in the poem (4.433–438) they are compared to sheep and lambs bleating in a field as they talk together in their different languages. The inference is that, from the Greek point of view, the languages of Trojans and their allied neighbors were not as unified as those of the Achaeans.
    I’m going to be honest and say I think Greeks actually committed genocide on them, they most likely did... true Troy became a Greek city after the Trojan war, but Troy was never originally a Greek city.

    I think Greeks live in denial with what their ancestors did...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by valentinavalley2; 09-16-2019 at 08:59 AM.

  6. #26
    High on life and drunk on knowledge
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    PaleoEuropean's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Last Online
    05-02-2022 @ 05:30 PM
    Location
    A trailer
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Ascended Nubian Pharaoh
    Ethnicity
    Canned Fried Chicken
    Ancestry
    Black and Bold
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Aboriginal
    Y-DNA
    E1b1N1GA
    mtDNA
    Nubian
    Taxonomy
    Black Israelite
    Politics
    Ham Sandwich
    Hero
    Elvis
    Religion
    Ham Sandwich Gang
    Relationship Status
    Married to Cousin
    Age
    69
    Gender
    Posts
    17,325
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 21,067
    Given: 39,632

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    1. Can you prove that trojans did learn the greek language? No.
    2. Is there source about trojans were greek speakers? Yes.
    3. Is there source about trojans were hittite or other speakers? No.
    I mean just admixture wise, wouldn't go as far to make any assertions about the nobility. The average soldier was probably levied from the local populaces.

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Last Online
    11-12-2019 @ 06:56 AM
    Ethnicity
    European
    Country
    Algeria
    Gender
    Posts
    686
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 138
    Given: 0

    0 Not allowed!

    Default Do you think that Balkan Dardanians might be one/or related to Trojan Dardanians?

    Quote Originally Posted by wvwvw View Post
    Troy was an Independent Greek city state. The Trojans were nothing to do with the Hittites. Hittites were Hittites. Trojans were Greeks. Tithonus (Ramses II) the father of Memnon was the son of the Trojan king Laomedon the father of Priam.

    For most of their existance Hittites had been vassals of the Greeks, which is why there is no mention by them in the Illiad. The last Hittite king was Priam the king of Troy who was known to the Hittites as Suppiluliama 1200-1190 BC. Suppiluliama(s) is a Hittite corruption of the Greek Zeus-Priamos meaning Zeus the Primary.

    The Hittites recognised the Achaeans as equals and called their leader by the title Great King. All of the tribes of the Asia-Minor region of Greece were recognised by the Hittites as equals and that includes the Trojans.

    When the siege of Troy began in 1193 BC the Egyptians had already destroyed the Hittite empire because it attacked Egypt. Read the inscription of Merneptah.

    The Hittites were known to the Greeks by the name of Assyrians since to all intents an purposes the were either ruled by the Assyrians or ruling the Assyrians since 1600 BC. Their decedents are the Assyrian Christians of Hatay which the Turks inflicted a systematic genocide on in 1938.
    Troy was never originally Greek, they were most likely related to Paeonians, Dardanians, Pelasgians or Hittites. Troy only became Greek after the Greek burnt it down killing people. I think you Greeks live in denial with what your ancestors did. In the Iliad Trojans are called Dardanians.

    Herodotus clearly states Pelasgians spoke a non Hellenic language a non Greek language.
    Herodotus clearly states Pelasgians were not Greek.

    If we think about it realistically Trojans were most likely the same as Dardanians a non Greek people, but if we look at archaeological sources they were probably Luwian. Trojans never considered themselves Greek but Dardanians, most likely they were Dardanians.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by valentinavalley2; 09-24-2019 at 07:35 AM.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 126
    Last Post: 01-26-2021, 06:27 PM
  2. Soros' Trojan Horse in Greece
    By catgeorge in forum Ελλάδα
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-24-2017, 12:30 PM
  3. Trojan War - historicity
    By Loki in forum Ελλάδα
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 01-27-2013, 10:04 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •