Can a orthodox or catholic be a born again Christian?

**~~Wanderer~~** · 10-25-2019, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Richmondbread

Catholics say Jesus is Lord and the son of God.

So what? So do devils, and they tremble! (Matthew 8:29, Mark 5:7, Luke 4:34, James 2:19-20).

Originally Posted by Richmondbread

The teachings they did in the past were indulgences. Catholics do not follow that today. Catholics are anti homosexual and very pro life. The main issue with the Catholic church is their emphasis on Mother Mary and praying to Saints. ButGod is very merciful and when people are HIS, then He does not dismiss them . You are either saved or aren't. You can follow the Gospel and still not be saved. It is a personal relationship. In fact, I would go as far as to say some Mormons may be saved. But in reality, that's probably fewer than Catholics.

The issues with Catholicism are numerous. The PDF I linked to previously went into more detail. While the things you mentioned are notable, the doctrine of salvation is the most significant error. Simply put, Catholicism does not teach true salvation by grace alone. It teaches salvation by works and by its own sacraments.

**Mortimer** · 10-25-2019, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by Wanderer

It’s a false gospel. In Catholicism, “grace” must be maintained by works and sacraments.

However, consider Romans 11:6

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Read this:

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/is-c...-christian.pdf

Thats what my friend tried to teach me too. He asked me "Do you believe in Christ and that we are saved by his grace"? I said I did but that works compliments faith, and that the bible states "you believe so do the demons and they are scared" "faith without good deeds is dead". I think the interpretation whether we are saved by grace or good deeds and grace is minimal different as protestants also believe that faith produces good deeds. This is only a subtile difference and catholics also believe that christ died on the cross and resurrected to save mankind.

**Mortimer** · 10-25-2019, 01:58 AM

The bible does say that you are saved by jesus christ grace yes. Also the guy who was crucified with jesus did nothing good but was saved because by jesus grace. yet the revealation also tells us that "when christ arrives the second time eatch will be judged and rewarded by what he has done". So it is complicated.

**Richmondbread** · 10-25-2019, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Wanderer

So what? So do devils, and they tremble! (Matthew 8:29, Mark 5:7, Luke 4:34, James 2:19-20).

The issues with Catholicism are numerous. The PDF I linked to previously went into more detail. While the things you mentioned are notable, the doctrine of salvation is the most significant error. Simply put, Catholicism does not teach true salvation by grace alone. It teaches salvation by works and by its own sacraments.

But the question is could an individual be a Christian and be Catholic, and the answer is yes. We aren't talking about the church.

**Mortimer** · 10-25-2019, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Richmondbread

But the question is could an individual be a Christian and be Catholic, and the answer is yes. We aren't talking about the church.

I dont even know whats the orthodox position on that, I think probably more similar to the catholic thing. Also Im nominally orthodox but I believe in Christ and I do most of stuff by interpreting straight out of the bible and reading the Bible. I think in this regard Im more protestant but out of tradition I stay nominally orthodox.

**Mortimer** · 10-25-2019, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by Richmondbread

The main issue with the Catholic church is their emphasis on Mother Mary and praying to Saints.

Im neutral but I do believe that saints make somewhat sense and that not everyone did the same for the faith. Also a protestant friend of mine, told me he will ask a friend of him to pray for my mum "because he has a special gift from God to pray". So in that sense he could also be declared a saint or if he were a martyr. The apostles received "the keys to heaven" from Jesus Christ. Not all christians did. Jesus picked only a handful of Apostles. Right? So they are saints, why is it wrong that someone is a saint or that there are no saints? And the Mother Mary prayer is straight ouf from the New Testament "Virigin Mary the Lord is with thee" this is from the New Testament. Also my friends who are protestant ask me to pray for them, and I ask them to pray for me. So in that sense also catholics ask Mary and Saints to pray for them. They do not pray to Saints or Mary.

**~~Wanderer~~** · 10-25-2019, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Thats what my friend tried to teach me too. He asked me "Do you believe in Christ and that we are saved by his grace"? I said I did but that works compliments faith, and that the bible states "you believe so do the demons and they are scared" "faith without good deeds is dead". I think the interpretation whether we are saved by grace or good deeds and grace is minimal different as protestants also believe that faith produces good deeds. This is only a subtile difference and catholics also believe that christ died on the cross and resurrected to save mankind.

Justification by works is predicated on imputation of righteousness, which is in Christ alone (Hebrews 10:1-14), and regeneration (Titus 3:5). The wicked--i.e., those in the flesh, those without Christ--cannot please God (Matthew 7:18, Romans 8:7-8).

The Bible does teach some believers will be saved without good works; those works will be burned up in judgment (1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

**Mortimer** · 10-25-2019, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Justification by works is predicated on imputation of righteousness, which is in Christ alone (Hebrews 10:1-14), and regeneration (Titus 3:5). The wicked--i.e., those in the flesh, those without Christ--cannot please God (Matthew 7:18, Romans 8:7-8).

The Bible does teach some believers will be saved without good works; those works will be burned up in judgment (1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

I think you can be saved without good works generally but it is not the rule. If you are a wrong doer, you should be scared of God. It is called "Fear of God" for some reason.

**Richmondbread** · 10-25-2019, 05:40 PM

Do Catholics read the Holy Bible or do they have a different Bible? I have to say that I view Catholicism as somewhat cult like. I know that many Catholics believe all Protestants are going to hell because they are the real church and Protestantism if a false church . This is a problem if they put more of their faith in church rather than God. The church is the bride of Christ. On the other hand, I have met some Catholics who I can tell are definitely born-again Christian. One must be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

**~~KMack~~** · 10-25-2019, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Richmondbread

Do Catholics read the Holy Bible or do they have a different Bible? I have to say that I view Catholicism as somewhat cult like. I know that many Catholics believe all Protestants are going to hell because they are the real church and Protestantism if a false church . This is a problem if they put more of their faith in church rather than God. The church is the bride of Christ. On the other hand, I have met some Catholics who I can tell are definitely born-again Christian. One must be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Absurd statement.