Alexander was Greek, Achilles probably wasn’t...

[PaleoEuropean]

That doesn’t make sense... Trojans were the ones being attacked not the other way round.


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I said he would rather see the Trojans defeat the Greeks, not that the Greeks were being attacked. Also just because the Greeks were attacking didn't mean Greeks didn't die, Achilles was indifferent to the average soldier, but fate caught up with him and made him suffer like the Greek mothers and wives, he suffered a great loss which ultimately drove him to seek vengeance on Hector. Achilles has no sense of justice, he is fueled by selfishness. That is why the Iliad ends with Hectors father groveling to Achilles, he reminds Achilles that his own father is old and to see things from his perspective as a human, a father and not just King of Troy. The Iliad is a very deep piece of literature.

[valentinavalley2]

I said he would rather see the Trojans defeat the Greeks, not that the Greeks were being attacked. Also just because the Greeks were attacking didn't mean Greeks didn't die, Achilles was indifferent to the average soldier, but fate caught up with him and made him suffer like the Greek mothers and wives, he suffered a great loss which ultimately drove him to seek vengeance on Hector. Achilles has no sense of justice, he is fueled by selfishness. That is why the Iliad ends with Hectors father groveling to Achilles, he reminds Achilles that his own father is old and to see things from his perspective as a human, a father and not just King of Troy. The Iliad is a very deep piece of literature.

I agree with you.


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[wvwvw]

POPPYCOCK. Achilles is referred to by Homer as a Hellene.

The Macedonians were Dorian Greeks. Achilles was an Aeolic Greek.

All the kings of Epirus (including the father of Olympias, Alexander's mother) were descended from Achilles and is why they were worshiped as ancestral heroes by their descendents since Mycenaean times.

Achilles was told by his mother that the first to set foot at Troy would die which is why Achilles was not the first of the ships.
Thetis (Achilles mother) learned when Achilles was a boy that Achilles would die at Troy and tried to prevent this going so far as to dress Achilles as a girl.

[wvwvw]

That doesn’t make sense... Trojans were the ones being attacked not the other way round.


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It was the Trojans (who were a mixture of Cretans, Aeolians Pelasgians and Arkadians) who had attacked the Pelopids first and had deprived them of their homeland. Ask yourself also who built the walls of Troy and who were the mercenaries? and the Arkadians fought on both sides.

It was Ilyus the king of Troy who first attacked Pelops and kicked him out of Lydia and Phrygia (1314 BC). And it was Aeacus who bilt the walls of Troy for Laodemon a generation later.

Pelops was expelled from Asia-Minor by the Trojans and fled to Greece where eventually his decedents took control the Peloponnesus the reason being that the previous royal house (which by this time had intermarried with that of Pelops) had formed into two factions and broken out into war with itself.

Pelops and his descendants who were allied with Crete by marriage had a vendetta against Troy so they tried to capture it three times. The first attempt by Pelops was unsuccessful, the second by Herakles succeeded in
causing a change in kingship to someone more amicable, but his son renewed the hostilities and Pelops successors destroyed him and his city. Then they attacked Egypt and Syria for helping the Trojans. At the same time the remnants of the line of Perseus wanted the Peloponnesus back under their control rather than that of a foreign line of kings so they took no part in the sack of Troy and eventually after several attempts deposed the Pelopids and took power again themselves.

According to Hygenius, Scamander (also called Xanthus) was the son of Triopas that makes the Trojans Inarchid Oceanids and thus the would have originally called themselves Achaeans.

The Trojans through their descent from Dardanus were Pelasgians ex-Krete, as was Sarpedon, and before that they were all Inarchid Oceanids, even the Achaeans. At the time of the Trojan War, Arkadians had already settled in around Pergamon and in mountainous Phrugia, while Aeolians were settled along coastal Phrugia.

It all comes back to why Zeus, Apollo and Aphrodite (Kubele) were all on the side of the Trojans and not on the side of the Pelopids and the Achaeans.

Get it through your thick skull. Archaeology shows that Troy was built by the Minoans in 2800 BC and has no similarities with either Hittite or Lydian or any other culture of Asia-Minor. Therefore the Trojans were always Greeks.

Dardanus came from Crete via Samothrace. This clearly indicates a Minoan Greek origin and therefore no relationship with any other inhabitants of Asia-Minor. In fact if the Maeonians are Phrygians then they would not have even been in Asia-Minor until 1000 years later than the Minoans, since the Phrygians obviously came at the same time as the Achaean invasions of 2200 and 1900 BC and used to live next to the Macedonians.

In the original poem Dardanus would have been substituted by Hephaestus appearing in the form of Dardanus. At the time that Herakles sacked Troy Homer relates the story of Hephaestus trying to usurp the throne of Zeus and being thrown out of Olympus for trying to rescue Hera who was chained up by Zeus, thus Hephaestus must have been a reference to one of Laomedons sons attempting to rescue Hesione.
Both stories are based on the same tradition as recorded by Troy and Sparta respectively in their own dialects.

[valentinavalley2]

It was the Trojans (who were a mixture of Cretans, Aeolians Pelasgians and Arkadians) who had attacked the Pelopids first and had deprived them of their homeland. Ask yourself also who built the walls of Troy and who were the mercenaries? and the Arkadians fought on both sides.

It was Ilyus the king of Troy who first attacked Pelops and kicked him out of Lydia and Phrygia (1314 BC). And it was Aeacus who bilt the walls of Troy for Laodemon a generation later.

Pelops was expelled from Asia-Minor by the Trojans and fled to Greece where eventually his decedents took control the Peloponnesus the reason being that the previous royal house (which by this time had intermarried with that of Pelops) had formed into two factions and broken out into war with itself.

Pelops and his descendants who were allied with Crete by marriage had a vendetta against Troy so they tried to capture it three times. The first attempt by Pelops was unsuccessful, the second by Herakles succeeded in
causing a change in kingship to someone more amicable, but his son renewed the hostilities and Pelops successors destroyed him and his city. Then they attacked Egypt and Syria for helping the Trojans. At the same time the remnants of the line of Perseus wanted the Peloponnesus back under their control rather than that of a foreign line of kings so they took no part in the sack of Troy and eventually after several attempts deposed the Pelopids and took power again themselves.

According to Hygenius, Scamander (also called Xanthus) was the son of Triopas that makes the Trojans Inarchid Oceanids and thus the would have originally called themselves Achaeans.

The Trojans through their descent from Dardanus were Pelasgians ex-Krete, as was Sarpedon, and before that they were all Inarchid Oceanids, even the Achaeans. At the time of the Trojan War, Arkadians had already settled in around Pergamon and in mountainous Phrugia, while Aeolians were settled along coastal Phrugia.

It all comes back to why Zeus, Apollo and Aphrodite (Kubele) were all on the side of the Trojans and not on the side of the Pelopids and the Achaeans.

Get it through your thick skull. Archaeology shows that Troy was built by the Minoans in 2800 BC and has no similarities with either Hittite or Lydian or any other culture of Asia-Minor. Therefore the Trojans were always Greeks.

Dardanus came from Crete via Samothrace. This clearly indicates a Minoan Greek origin and therefore no relationship with any other inhabitants of Asia-Minor. In fact if the Maeonians are Phrygians then they would not have even been in Asia-Minor until 1000 years later than the Minoans, since the Phrygians obviously came at the same time as the Achaean invasions of 2200 and 1900 BC and used to live next to the Macedonians.

In the original poem Dardanus would have been substituted by Hephaestus appearing in the form of Dardanus. At the time that Herakles sacked Troy Homer relates the story of Hephaestus trying to usurp the throne of Zeus and being thrown out of Olympus for trying to rescue Hera who was chained up by Zeus, thus Hephaestus must have been a reference to one of Laomedons sons attempting to rescue Hesione.
Both stories are based on the same tradition as recorded by Troy and Sparta respectively in their own dialects.

Lol Trojans were not Greek.


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[Xz2k9]

He had some Illyrian or Thracian ancestry obviously and Epirote.

The first people that history recognises in this region are the Illyrians, a large and mighty nation living on the Adriatic Sea, from the Po to the Ambracian Gulf, and northwards to the Danube. Strabo believes that this people spread westwards to Lake Constance, through Noricum and Vindelicia. He also asserts that the Pannonians stemmed from this people. Appian notes clearly that the Pannonians were Illyrians. The Istrians, Japodes, Dalmatae, Liburnians, Dardanians, Ardiaei, Autariates, in short, all the peoples down to the Ceraunian mountains are generally regarded as Illyrians. But they also inhabited wide reaches of Macedonia, Epirus and Thessaly.

Only a small portion of Macedonia was inhabited by the Greeks. The mass of the population was Illyrian and Thracian. The Dassaretae, the Lyncestae, the Bryges or Phrygians, the Pelagones, The Eordi, the Elimiotes, the Atintanes, the inhabitants of the region around Candavia, Pella, Edessa and Verva have all been expressly referred to as Illyrian. To a great extent, it was almost only the towns on the coast that had Greek inhabitants. The Macedonians had a language of their own that was also spoken in the regions along the Ionian Sea across from Corfu and, thus in Greek Illyria and Epirus.

There were also many non-Greek peoples in Epirus who, as noted above, spoke the Macedonian language, or the Illyrian language, which was probably the same thing. But the Greek colonies here and the dynasty of Aeacides introduced the Greek language such that the various peoples spoke two languages. The Amphilochans further to the south also belonged to this group, and for this reason are also referred to as barbarians by Thucydides. In Thessaly there were also other peoples of foreign origin, such as the Perrhaedans, referred to by Appian as Illyrians, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei and the Penestae, the Helots of the Thessalians, who had probably been the same people as the Illyrian Penestae. Scylax notes that only beyond Ambracia, the Peneus and the town or mountain of Homotion in Magnesia, had the Greeks begun to inhabit the region in a compact manner. In Strabo’s time, the barbarians owned large parts of Greece, and he reports that the Thracians inhabited Macedonia and parts of Thessaly at that time.

[Adamastor]

Achilles was a fictional character anyway. The fact someone even bother to write that shit is the proof of why Balkans is the worst region of Europe (apart from Greeks ofc).

[catgeorge]

Very true, but Achilles is known to curse the Greeks, he would pray to Zeus to help the Trojans defeat the Greeks. Would a Greek today pray to God to help his enemies destroy Greece? I think not.


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There wasn't a Greece then it was city states.. alot of city states were aligned and alot of city states were at war with each other forever,

[Xz2k9]

In 337 BC, Alexander fled Macedon with his mother, dropping her off with her brother, King Alexander I of Epirus in Dodona, capital of the Molossians.[40] He continued to Illyria,[40] where he sought refuge with one or more Illyrian kings, perhaps with Glaucias, and was treated as a guest, despite having defeated them in battle a few years before.[41]

[Xz2k9]

Albania's currency is also named after him .. makes a lot of sense ... Pyrrhus was also raised by Illyrians