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Thread: Broadskull

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    Default Broadskull

    In 1931 German anthro-psycho-doktor T.Y. Roschier measured bunch of Karelian tribesmen. His broadskull champion had skull breadth of 185 mm. This is almost 5 cm's broader than the UP average, and, after taking closer look at officially measured specs of various Finnish tribes, it looks to be Finnish champion as well. Hooorayh!

    Here are the averages for various Finnish tribes. I must say, on the whole, the Karelian sample looks suspicious, as it has much higher variation than the rest of the samples. There is no way a pure ethnic Karelian has skull breadth of 12cm's, unless it's suffering from some disease So I don't know what hobo-drifters the psycho-dok has measured

    *Average Karelian - male*
    Head lenght 186.28 (154-208)
    Head breadth 152.36 (124-185)

    *Savo - male*
    Head lenght 189.41 (166-214)
    Head breadth 153.49 (137-174)

    *Tavastia - male*
    Head lenght 191.37 (175-214)
    Head breadth 154.85 (142-170)

    *Satakunta (male)*
    Head lenght 191.12 (171-211)
    Head breadth 153.60 (139-169)

    *Finland proper (male)*
    Head lenght 194.18 (177-209)
    Head breadth 153.46 (141-168)

    *Turku Archipelago male*
    Head lenght 196.83 (186-223)
    Head breadth 157.04 (145-168)


    *Southern-Ostrobothnia (FI) male*
    Head lenght 193.25 (179-212)
    Head breadth 153.95 (142-167)

    *Southern-Ostrobothnia (SWE) male*
    Head lenght 190.23 (171-210)
    Head breadth 153.30 (140-168)

    *Northern-Ostrobothnia - male*
    Head lenght 188.40 (170-207)
    Head breadth 155.78 (139-177)
    Last edited by Harkonnen; 09-22-2019 at 04:32 PM.

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    A Borreby survival Broadskull example from Coon:



    FIG.2 (1 view, C. W. Dupertuis, Century of Progress). A German Borreby type with the excessive head breadth of 175 mm., which must be one of the widest non-deformed head breadths ever measured. This width is greater than the lengths of some heads shown in this section.
    Looks like a killer.

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    I found this blog by searching for "roschier karelia": http://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2006/...a-summary.html.

    This post has a compilation of anthropometric measurements from different papers: http://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2007/...opometric.html. I collected the measurements for males into the table below.

    - Cephalic index is the highest in Saami, followed by Northern Ostrobothnians, Karelians, and Savonians. Cephalic index is the lowest in Swedish-speakers from Uusimaa and from the Turku Archipelago.
    - Head breadth and bigonial diameter are both the highest in Finnish-speakers from the Turku Archipelago and the lowest in Karelians.
    - Facial index is the highest in Saami, followed by Savonians and Tavastians. It is the lowest among Finnish-speakers from Finland Proper. However Finnish-speakers from Finland Proper still have the third highest nasal index after Saami and Savonians.
    - Karelians have the highest HLI and the lowest BHI. I was able to calculate skull height for the five populations with data for both HLI and head breadth. Out of them, Karelians had the highest skull (136 mm), followed by Tavastians (133 mm), people from Satakunta (133 mm), Savonians (132 mm), and Saami (126 mm). Thus it corraborates the Kylälahti paper which said that Karelians are high-skulled.
    - For some reason, Swedish-speakers from Uusimaa have wide noses and high interorbital width.
    - The three tallest populations are all Swedish-speaking (from Åland, Turku Archipelago, and Uusimaa). Their height ranges from about 174 cm to about 172 cm, compared to about 166 cm among Karelians and about 167 cm among Savonians.

    Errors in the original data:

    - I excluded the fields for the bizygomatic diameter and facial index of Swedish-speakers from Uusimaa, because the bizygomatic diameter was so low that there was probably an error either in the blog post or in the original source.
    - What was called BHI in the blog post was probably height-breadth index instead, so I inverted each BHI value by dividing it by 100, taking its reciprocal, and multiplying it by 100.

    Height Head
    length
    Head
    breadth
    Minimum
    frontal
    breadth
    Bizygomatic
    diameter
    Bigonial
    diameter
    Total
    facial
    height
    Nasal
    height
    Nasal
    breadth
    Interorbital
    width
    Cephalic
    index
    Facial
    index
    Nasal
    index
    BHI HLI
    Karelia 166.29 186.28 152.36 109.86 137.35 107.22 122.11 55.57 35.07 31.90 81.670 89.343 63.800 112.397 72.754
    Uusimaa (Fin) 169.65 110.58 139.04 111.07 124.22 54.51 35.22 32.39 79.785 89.611 65.285 116.467 68.463
    Uusimaa (Swe) 172.14 108.41 110.62 127.00 57.35 35.90 33.13 78.227 62.987 118.353 65.744
    Savonia 167.40 189.41 153.49 113.20 137.77 109.19 118.11 51.65 34.73 31.95 81.109 86.025 68.432 116.305 69.682
    Tavastia 170.55 191.37 154.85 109.82 141.39 111.0 122.81 53.72 35.35 32.09 80.99 87.01 66.59 116.509 69.49
    Satakunta 170.79 191.12 153.60 112.09 141.63 111.08 126.93 57.65 35.32 32.14 80.478 89.728 62.028 115.817 69.421
    Saami 160.4 185.6 156.2 107.9 140.9 109.9 111.2 49.6 36.3 33.3 84.2 79.1 74.0 123.916 67.9
    Finland Proper (Fin) 171.68 194.18 153.46 111.32 140.5 110.11 131.75 53.50 35.27 32.67 79.108 93.875 66.632
    Åland (Swe) 174.23 196.58 155.09 109.73 142.82 112.30 125.12 54.22 34.88 32.31 78.928 87.801 64.596
    Turku Archipelago (Fin) 172.07 196.83 157.04 109.88 141.64 113.16 128.08 56.92 34.76 31.84 79.855 90.174 61.398
    Turku Archipelago (Swe) 173.37 195.02 152.98 109.20 142.02 110.00 127.89 57.11 35.10 32.02 78.554 90.181 61.810
    Southern Ostrobothnia (Fin) 170.60 193.25 153.95 111.21 140.26 111.36 129.24 58.82 34.61 32.68 79.71 92.34 59.20
    Southern Ostrobothnia (Swe) 171.19 190.23 153.30 107.29 138.01 108.90 122.69 54.63 35.59 32.41 80.69 89.17 65.50
    Northern Ostrobothnia 167.62 188.40 155.78 111.29 139.80 110.39 122.56 55.03 35.05 31.64 82.780 87.853 64.144

    I then used this tool to make a PCA chart based on the table above: https://biit.cs.ut.ee/clustvis/. You can try it yourself if you click on the "Data import" tab, select "Paste data", paste the data from the table above, and select "transpose matrix".



    I also used ClustVis to create the heatmap below.

    - I think the first five traits are grouped together because Saami all have high values for them (BHI, nasal breadth, interorbital width, cephalic index, and nasal index).
    - Finnish-speakers from the Turku Archipelago have the highest head breadth and bigonial diameter.
    - Tavastians and Finnish-speakers from Uusimaa are the most boring and average, so they don't have brightly colored squares for any trait.
    - Northern Ostrobothnians have fairly high cephalic index, because their heads are both relatively wide and relatively short.
    - Swedish-speakers from Uusimaa have the lowest HLI even though their heads aren't that long, which must mean that they have low cranial height.

    Last edited by Komintasavalta; 12-19-2020 at 11:52 PM.

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    In the heatmap above, you can see that some of the tallest populations on the left side of the plot also have relatively high head length and head breadth.

    Therefore I tried calculating head size adjusted for body height using this formula: ((head_length+head_breadth)/2)/body_height (where head measurements are in mm and body height is in cm). It was the highest in Saami as expected:

    1.065 Saami
    1.028 Turku Archipelago (Fin)
    1.027 Northern Ostrobothnia
    1.024 Savonia
    1.018 Karelia
    1.018 Southern Ostrobothnia (Fin)
    1.015 Tavastia
    1.012 Finland Proper (Fin)
    1.009 Åland (Swe)
    1.009 Satakunta
    1.004 Turku Archipelago (Swe)
    1.003 Southern Ostrobothnia (Swe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkonnen View Post
    In 1931 German anthro-psycho-doktor T.Y. Roschier measured bunch of Karelian tribesmen. His broadskull champion had skull breadth of 185 mm. This is almost 5 cm's broader than the UP average, and, after taking closer look at officially measured specs of various Finnish tribes, it looks to be Finnish champion as well. Hooorayh!

    Here are the averages for various Finnish tribes. I must say, on the whole, the Karelian sample looks suspicious, as it has much higher variation than the rest of the samples. There is no way a pure ethnic Karelian has skull breadth of 12cm's, unless it's suffering from some disease So I don't know what hobo-drifters the psycho-dok has measured

    *Average Karelian - male*
    Head lenght 186.28 (154-208)
    Head breadth 152.36 (124-185)

    *Savo - male*
    Head lenght 189.41 (166-214)
    Head breadth 153.49 (137-174)

    *Tavastia - male*
    Head lenght 191.37 (175-214)
    Head breadth 154.85 (142-170)

    *Satakunta (male)*
    Head lenght 191.12 (171-211)
    Head breadth 153.60 (139-169)

    *Finland proper (male)*
    Head lenght 194.18 (177-209)
    Head breadth 153.46 (141-168)

    *Turku Archipelago male*
    Head lenght 196.83 (186-223)
    Head breadth 157.04 (145-168)


    *Southern-Ostrobothnia (FI) male*
    Head lenght 193.25 (179-212)
    Head breadth 153.95 (142-167)

    *Southern-Ostrobothnia (SWE) male*
    Head lenght 190.23 (171-210)
    Head breadth 153.30 (140-168)

    *Northern-Ostrobothnia - male*
    Head lenght 188.40 (170-207)
    Head breadth 155.78 (139-177)
    Or unless he's short, the best explanation for it. 154 mm headlength with 124 mm head breadth would be very typical on a person who is 141 cm tall literally gary coleman -tier height. It wouldn't surprise me this, some kind of dwarf-ness going on.
    I'm more interested in those dudes who score 223 mm head length, they should have provided a pic of the people they measured. To have it for reference.
    "Where the Buffalo Roam"



    Spoiler!

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    Apart from Mark and Heapost, another study where the Swedish-speaking inhabitants of Finland were darker-haired than Finnish-speaking Finns is Löfgren 1937 ("Über die anthropologie der Bewohner von Uusimaa") (https://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2006...d-summary.html):

    L. Löfgren had created a rather large (219 pages) study on the anthropological qualities of the population of Nyland. The measurements had been performed between the years 1928 and 1932. They had studied 394 men, out of which 211 were Swedish speakers and 252 women, out of which 162 were Swedish speakers. [...]

    However the Finnish speaking men and women of Nyland were more blond than their Swedish speaking countrymen.

    If this was your old blog Hark, have you compiled the pigmentation data from these papers somewhere?

    The same paper also supported the view of Coon and Lundman that Finns have angular or square faces:

    The faces were mainly ellipse shaped, however this was more frequent among the Swedish speakers. The faces of the Finnish speakers showed more angularity (this was said to be the case also in Finland Proper).

    Lundman considered a large rectangular face ("stort fyrkantigt ansikte") to be an East Baltid trait (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/rastyper-04.htm).

    Coon wrote: "The bigonial diameter of the Finns is very broad,[103] to the standards of the very quite equal Livs, and gives the Finnish face the square appearance for which it is noted." (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-IX11.htm)

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    The bizygo variation of the Karelian set is even huuger than on skull bredth

    *Average Karelian - male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 137.35 (96-191)

    Uusimaa - (FI) male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 139.04 (120-157)

    Uusimaa - (SWE) male
    Bizygomatic diameter 130.85 (112-154)


    *Savo - male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 137.77 (105-155)


    *Tavastia - male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 141.39 (116-156)

    *Satakunta (male)*
    Bizygomatic diameter 141.63 (122-157)


    *Sami (male)*
    Bizygomatic diameter 140.9 (127-155)


    *Finland proper (male)*
    Bizygomatic diameter 140.5 (118-157)

    *Åland Islands - Swedish speakers (SWE) male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 142.82 (130-157)

    *Turku Archipelago male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 141.64 (129-157)

    *Turku Archipelago (Swe) male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 142.02 (126-161)



    *Southern-Ostrobothnia (FI) male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 140.26 (121-157)


    *Southern-Ostrobothnia (SWE) male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 138.01 (115-153)


    *Northern-Ostrobothnia - male*
    Bizygomatic diameter 139.80 (110-158)

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    And here's the variation for bigonial

    *Average Karelian - male*
    Bigonial diameter 107.22 (79-145)

    Uusimaa - (FI) male*
    Bigonial diameter 111.07 (94-126)

    Uusimaa - (SWE) male
    Bigonial diameter 110.62 (95-132)

    *Savo - male*
    Bigonial diameter 109.19 (85-143)

    *Tavastia - male*
    Bigonial diameter 111.0 (85-132)

    *Satakunta (male)*
    Bigonial diameter 111.08 (94-128)

    *Sami (male)*
    Bigonial diameter 109.9 (95-123)

    *Finland proper (male)*
    Bigonial diameter 110.11 (95-141)

    *Åland Islands - Swedish speakers (SWE) male*
    Bigonial diameter 112.30 (99-128)

    *Turku Archipelago male*
    Bigonial diameter 113.16 (96-145)

    *Turku Archipelago (Swe) male*
    Bigonial diameter 110.00 (95-129)

    *Southern-Ostrobothnia (FI) male*
    Bigonial diameter 111.36 (95-127)

    *Southern-Ostrobothnia (SWE) male*
    Bigonial diameter 108.90 (92-126)

    *Northern-Ostrobothnia - male*
    Bigonial diameter 110.39 (93-133)

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    haaark
    Last edited by Harkonnen; 12-29-2020 at 03:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komintasavalta View Post
    I found this blog by searching for "roschier karelia": http://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2006/...a-summary.html.

    This post has a compilation of anthropometric measurements from different papers: http://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2007/...opometric.html. I collected the measurements for males into the table below.

    - Cephalic index is the highest in Saami, followed by Northern Ostrobothnians, Karelians, and Savonians. Cephalic index is the lowest in Swedish-speakers from Uusimaa and from the Turku Archipelago.
    - Head breadth and bigonial diameter are both the highest in Finnish-speakers from the Turku Archipelago and the lowest in Karelians.
    - Facial index is the highest in Saami, followed by Savonians and Tavastians. It is the lowest among Finnish-speakers from Finland Proper. However Finnish-speakers from Finland Proper still have the third highest nasal index after Saami and Savonians.
    - Karelians have the highest HLI and the lowest BHI. I was able to calculate skull height for the five populations with data for both HLI and head breadth. Out of them, Karelians had the highest skull (136 mm), followed by Tavastians (133 mm), people from Satakunta (133 mm), Savonians (132 mm), and Saami (126 mm). Thus it corraborates the Kylälahti paper which said that Karelians are high-skulled.
    - For some reason, Swedish-speakers from Uusimaa have wide noses and high interorbital width.



    Traits with the highest positive loadings on CV I (32 % of variance) are cranial height and nasal protrusion angle, implying that on the between group level, groups with high vaults tend to display sharply protruding noses. As seen from Fig. 2, Karelians, Komi Zyrians, Ingrians as well as the Kylalahti Kalmistomäki group cluster on the positive extreme of CV I. The opposite extreme is taken by Sami groups, which demonstrate maximal gracility, low vault, and relatively weakly protruding noses.

    Traits with maximal loadings on CV II, which explains 25 % of the variation are nasal protrusion angle, simotic index, bizygomatic width, and length and width of the braincase. CV II demonstrates that a lesser nasal protrusion angle co-occurs with a shorter braincase and a higher simotic index. The Sami living in the central parts of the Kola Peninsula in relative isolation from others score highest on CV II due to brachycrany and small nasal protrusion angle combined with the convex nasal bridge.
    From Kylälahti paper. Move right in the picture -> higher skull. Finland-Swede sample consist FS from Finland and "Swedes from Ruhnu Island, Estonia". Pretty much looks like they are quite equally lowskulled like Saami. Also one Estonian outlier is very lowskulled. Finland Swedes however score maximally on longskulledness whereas Saami score maximally on broadskulledness.

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