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Thread: The Truth about Swedish socialism: Debunking the lies of the left

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    Which insulated them from disaster. And before you say right-wing: let's not forget, Mr. Dishonest, that the Left went fully ahead with the privatisation of national services during the 1980s and 1990s in both the Netherlands and the UK (the Blair Years). And you know that as well as I do.
    Who said I approve of privatisation? I support the renationalisation of railways and utilities at a minimum. Anyway, most of the industries were privatised under Thatcher and to some extent Major. However, admittedly it was Blair and his minions who introduced PFI, the internal market and other such nonsensical schemes to the NHS in particular. Labour also privatised the Post Office, which in the process has shut down many branches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Who said I approve of privatisation? I support the renationalisation of railways and utilities at a minimum. Anyway, most of the industries were privatised under Thatcher and to some extent Major. However, admittedly it was Blair and his minions who introduced PFI, the internal market and other such nonsensical schemes to the NHS in particular. Labour also privatised the Post Office, which in the process has shut down many branches.
    Aye. But you want Labour because those would bring in more of your kind. Come on - that's also why you support electoral measures that support the Left. The fact is, that you had people like me and Longbowman (and I am not even his biggest fan - far from it) explain to the people what your proposals lead to, should show us that your ideas are dishonest to begin with: they are just there to entrench left-wing power and speed up the process. Less people in the countryside that help themselves and whose votes matter ? More votes for the Left from the cities where people leave cheek by jaw and need money in order to survive. That's why you concentrate votes on the cities.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


  3. #23
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    There are two criticisms of me for the French system (that is now slipping from them thanks to Macron and his sick ilk): it's overcentralised (everything is Paris, Paris, Paris - at the expense of the province and of minorities like the Bretons, the Flemish and the Alsatians) and the migrants. But without them, they'd probably have what it takes to be Europe's pre-eminent power: they produce their own armaments, have their own industry, rely less on imports, protect their culture and had a strong countryside. I'll tell you what, it's a secret: it's us that is going the wrong way. But you know that.That's why you've always pushed it.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    Aye. But you want Labour because those would bring in more of your kind. Come on - that's also why you support electoral measures that support the Left. The fact is, that you had people like me and Longbowman (and I am not even his biggest fan - far from it) explain to the people what your proposals lead to, should show us that your ideas are dishonest to begin with: they are just there to entrench left-wing power and speed up the process. Less people in the countryside that help themselves and whose votes matter ? More votes for the Left from the cities where people leave cheek by jaw and need money in order to survive. That's why you concentrate votes on the cities.
    I am left-leaning, but have never been particularly attached to the Labour Party (or indeed any political party really). Certainly, the Labour Party as it is now, with the almost cult-like behaviour around Jeremy Corbyn, along with his general ineptitude and adoration for people like Mahmoud Abbas and Nicolas Maduro, I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Also, just because I don't support a total ban on immigration like some other forum members do doesn't mean I support totally open borders either. Quite frankly, to me most of the societies and cultures stretching broadly from Morocco to Bangladesh are really illiberal and reactionary, and it is really naive to think that large numbers of people from those countries would integrate that happily and easily in Western countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    I am left-leaning, but have never been particularly attached to the Labour Party (or indeed any political party really). Certainly, the Labour Party as it is now, with the almost cult-like behaviour around Jeremy Corbyn, along with his general ineptitude and adoration for people like Mahmoud Abbas and Nicolas Maduro, I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Also, just because I don't support a total ban on immigration like some other forum members do doesn't mean I support totally open borders either. Quite frankly, to me most of the societies and cultures stretching broadly from Morocco to Bangladesh are really illiberal and reactionary, and it is really naive to think that large numbers of people from those countries would integrate that happily and easily in Western countries.
    But you support systems that would entrench those open borders: urbanisation and all political powers to the cities through PR. And you know that: you just don't say it openly.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    There are two criticisms of me for the French system (that is now slipping from them thanks to Macron and his sick ilk): it's overcentralised (everything is Paris, Paris, Paris - at the expense of the province and of minorities like the Bretons, the Flemish and the Alsatians) and the migrants. But without them, they'd probably have what it takes to be Europe's pre-eminent power: they produce their own armaments, have their own industry, rely less on imports, protect their culture and had a strong countryside. I'll tell you what, it's a secret: it's us that is going the wrong way. But you know that.That's why you've always pushed it.
    I thought Germany was the one that had by far Europe's biggest manufacturing output (though doubtless being whittled away there too).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    I thought Germany was the one that had by far Europe's biggest manufacturing output (though doubtless being whittled away there too).
    They had. At one point. But the Ruhr has been falling apart since the 1970s. Funny enough due to leftist strikes and agitation which drove up prices so much that companies started leaving when even the Leftist imported migrant workers became too expensive.



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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    But you support systems that would entrench those open borders: urbanisation and all political powers to the cities through PR. And you know that: you just don't say it openly.
    I wouldn't support pure PR in the Israeli sense. There would definitely have to be some sort of minimum threshold to stop the lunatic fringes coming in. And your point about the cities gobbling up everything else does have some validity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    I wouldn't support pure PR in the Israeli sense. There would definitely have to be some sort of minimum threshold to stop the lunatic fringes coming in. And your point about the cities gobbling up everything else does have some validity.
    And yet you support PR. Every country that has implemented PR, has had the same problem. But, of course, this is no news to you: that's why you support it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    And yet you support PR. Every country that has implemented PR, has had the same problem. But, of course, this is no news to you: that's why you support it.
    Because FPTP produces really fucked up and perverse results. Very often parties that attract as little as 30% of the overall vote nevertheless win landslide majorities. In the 2015 general election, both UKIP and the Green Party attracted something like 2-3 million votes each, yet only won one MP each! No system is perfect, but certainly PR enables a lot more flexibilty and change than the stasis and entrenched party interests that inevitably flow with FPTP.

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