Genetic differentiation in S.Italy : new clusters and evidence from recent admixture from Greece

[FinalFlash]

Gedmatch and Sikeliot lied to us

[Samnium]

Those are not Average numbers of groups of Locals, but BIAS picked single person samples.

Think about it.

Also don't look just at the differences, include also the similarities.

No they are not bias picked, he posted a lot of results, not only those who are northern-shifted.

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[Samnium]

Gedmatch and Sikeliot lied to us

Apprently he has over-estimated the MENA in Italy, and it's true that these results show that elevated MENA is not present in all S.Italy.

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[FinalFlash]

Apprently he has over-estimated the MENA in Italy, and it's true that these results show that elevated MENA is not present in all S.Italy.

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I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense. What do you mean by "MENA"? Elevated Middle eastern like Levatine/Arabian or North African like Berber? Because you do realize that they're totally different things, right?

[Samnium]

I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense. What do you mean by "MENA"? Elevated Middle eastern like Levatine/Arabian or North African like Berber? Because you do realize that they're totally different things, right?

MENA = Levantine, Arab, Northern Western Asian, NA

I know they are not the same thing, indeed mainlanders score predominantly Northern Western Asian BUT there is a broadly section that would possibly have some Arab/Levantine/NA DNA. So that's why I use "MENA" because all these categories are grouped together in a broadly category.

(By the way we are talking about recent input not ancient one)

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[Maxitor]

Most, if not all of the Northern West Asian bulk is not recent, it goes back to the late Neolithic, and then overlaps again in the Bronze Age.

It’s highly unlikely that 3/4 quarter of the Country got this input in about the last 10 generations or so, as 23andme claims.

[Maxitor]

Ancient Greeks differ from the Modern Greeks.

In the results of the Southern Italians, if you do not see Slavic or Eastern European at about 4% or more, than the Greek&Balkan It’s not recent, but older or Bronze Age related.

[Samnium]

Ancient Greeks differ from the Modern Greeks.

In the results of the Southern Italians, if you do not see Slavic or Eastern European at about 4% or more, than the Greek&Balkan It’s not recent, but older or Bronze Age related.

23andme is supposed to pinpoint only recent admixture. Actually I think that the Slavic is included in the Greek&Balkan and not separated. (However some showed Ionian islands which have not slavic admixture so that would make sense in your theory that they don't score Eastern Europe).

If not that would mean that these southern italians are overall only "17% MENA" and would make them to plot with central-north italians (I don't think that I think more about Central Italy/parts of Tuscany). It would also mean that the "Italian" section is mostly : "Italic" section also.

In both cases this cluster end up in Central/Central-North Italy, which is very surprising and destroy the idea of a clinal Italy genetically.

[Maxitor]

23andme hasn't refined the ancient genetics admixture of the various Italian populations (updating often).

If 23andme only gives results of recent generations, then we must have missed a recent colossal invasion from West Asia.

That’s why the extra admixture is Ancient.

[Samnium]

Calabria Geography

Calabria is long and not very wide, Southern Calabria has no barriers (Aspromonte is not highest and difficult to pass as Sila) against arab rule and byzantine migrations. So that area have been the most admixed, there was also a lot of jewish conversions.

Southern Catanzaro is connected to Vibo Valentia so this area is similar to Vibo genetically (maybe a little bit less outlying). Northern Catanzaro is similar to Cosenza in my opinion : very mountainous, very few invaders and Italic/Greek that settled here. I don't talk about Crotone because I dont know this part of Calabria, but Crotone is partly connected to Cosenza so definitely similar genetics results I think.



As you see Cosenza is surrounded by mountains, the Tyrrhenean Coast which prevent attacks from Sea and in the other side, la Sila. La Sila highlands can reach 2000m and are covered by forests, so really not really easy to pass though.

A large valley at North allowed Greeks and Lucanians to come (valle del Crati).

There wasn't any modern road until the beginning of the 20th century, mixing between diverse provinces occurred only in recent times. (People marry other people from neighbors villages



I drawn the plain of Vibo which is connected to Catanzaro and Cosenza province with arrows in the direction of valle del Crati.




That's Sila, Pollino in the back and the Tyrrhenian Catena Costiera to the left, see how it's mountainous ? Alpine climate, very high mountains for Southern Italy. Lucanians were really though to get here and install. Same for the greeks.

Spoiler!

Catena Costiera (Tyrrhenian coast) :

Spoiler!