How can people smoke who claim to be progressive?

[The Lawspeaker]

Yeah and he will cost society dearly when he dies and his kids no longer have a support pillar. He will incur costs on society from his poisoning himself and his children.

Wrong. My oldest family member died as an old man with his kids having brought forth a new generation. The other one I am talking about is well in his 60s, he just retired after having been a grocer and respected entrepreneur for most of his working days and his kids also brought forth a new generation.

If anything: smokers cost less. Because they supposedly die younger. It's those fucking twats like you that don't smoke that will cost society a lot of money: pensions because you selfish bums just don't plan on dying before you are 95 but are still demanding to retire at the age of 65.

[Austin]

Wrong. My oldest family member died as an old man with his kids having brought forth a new generation. The other one I am talking about is well in his 60s, he just retired after having been a grocer and respected entrepreneur for most of his working days and his kids also brought forth a new generation.

If anything: smokers cost less. Because they supposedly die younger. It's those fucking twats like you that don't smoke that will cost society a lot of money: pensions because you selfish bums just don't plan on dying before you are 95 but are still demanding to retire at the age of 65.

Smoking isn't progressive. If you actively poisoning yourself, you can hardly have legitimacy of any form in a tax-based argument at all. Nor can you have legitimacy in an environment argument at all. It's hard to imagine someone who poisons themselves every day being able to really be a believable advocate for the planet and its creatures.

It costs the society money when a smoker goes into the hospital to die a slow, horrible death on the states tab. This is a non-progressive, or pro-capitalist, anti-great society position to be pro-smoking.

Smoking hurts ones ability to have children. It hurts those around the poisoner. It is a pro-merchant, anti-society position you take Civis.

[Wulfhere]

It's a question of freedom. In any case, tax on smoking pays for healthcare associated with it many times over, not to mention reduced pension bills, as has already been pointed out. Smoking also reduces the risk of dementia, even taking into account the somewhat earlier average deaths.

[Austin]

It's a question of freedom. In any case, tax on smoking pays for healthcare associated with it many times over, not to mention reduced pension bills, as has already been pointed out. Smoking also reduces the risk of dementia, even taking into account the somewhat earlier average deaths.

Wrong.



Individuals

• On average, smokers die 13-14 years earlier than non-smokers
• User spend around $50,000 in their lifetime on tobacco products
• Lung cancer is the second leading cause of death and was among the first diseases causally linked to smoking
• Smoking approximately doubles a person's risk for stroke

Companies

• Employers lose about $3400 annually for every person who smokes
• Smokers take an average of 5-6 more sick days per year than non-smokers
• Work compensation claims for smokers is 1244% higher than non-smokers (average $2189 vs. $176)
• Smokers are 29% more likely to be involved in industrial accidents
• Smokers are 40% more likely to incur work-related injuries
• Health and fire insurance premiums can be 25-35% higher for businesses that allow smoking at the work site

Our Nation

• The United States spends $96 billion a year in direct medical costs associated with tobacco use
• Cigarette smoking is the leading preventable cause of eath in the United States

The World

World Health Organization (WHO)

"Tobacco use is one of the biggest public health threats the world has ever faced. It kills more than 5 million people a year-an average of one person every six seconds-and account for one in 10 adult deaths. Up to half the current users will eventually die of a tobacco-related disease. More than 80% of the one billion smokers worldwide live in low- and middle-income countries, where the burden of tobacco-related illness and death is heaviest."

[Wulfhere]

Wrong.




Individuals

• On average, smokers die 13-14 years earlier than non-smokers
• User spend around $50,000 in their lifetime on tobacco products
• Lung cancer is the second leading cause of death and was among the first diseases causally linked to smoking
• Smoking approximately doubles a person's risk for stroke

Companies

• Employers lose about $3400 annually for every person who smokes
• Smokers take an average of 5-6 more sick days per year than non-smokers
• Work compensation claims for smokers is 1244% higher than non-smokers (average $2189 vs. $176)
• Smokers are 29% more likely to be involved in industrial accidents
• Smokers are 40% more likely to incur work-related injuries
• Health and fire insurance premiums can be 25-35% higher for businesses that allow smoking at the work site

None of that contradicts what I just said. How much does does an extra 13-14 years of state pension, housing benefit, and all other benefits come to?

[Austin]

None of that contradicts what I just said. How much does does an extra 13-14 years of state pension, housing benefit, and all other benefits come to?

No it does directly contradict your whole argument. Had those people been paying into the system and or creating more wealth through various means, OR having children, then obviously that is an extreme negative impact on that society.

It is also a matter of freedom. It is an anti-progressive view Civis has that it is his 'right' to smoke, as is your view. It is not your right to poison people, seeing as that is extremely un-progressive and pro-capitalist. It is the most anti-society, anti-environment position one can have. It is literally an anti-freedom position to condone smoking at all. It's the most pro-capitalist, anti-people position in the world.

[Wulfhere]

No it does directly contradict your whole argument. Had those people been paying into the system and or creating more wealth through various means, OR having children, then obviously that is an extreme negative impact on that society.

It is also a matter of freedom. It is an anti-progressive view Civis has that it is his 'right' to smoke, as is your view. It is not your right to poison people, seeing as that is extremely un-progressive and pro-capitalist. It is the most anti-society, anti-environment position one can have. It is literally an anti-freedom position to condone smoking at all.

Are you taking the piss?

[Austin]

Are you taking the piss?

I don't hear a refuting of any of the above statements.


Smoking is pro-capitalist and anti-people.

[Bridie]

Smoking also reduces the risk of dementia, even taking into account the somewhat earlier average deaths.

Where did you read this?


Oh, and Austin... get off your soap-box, mate. No one's impressed.

[Wulfhere]

I don't hear a refuting of any of that

I don't need to refute it. I just do it.