Are Romanians uncomfortable being labeled as Balkan ?

[Aspirin]

It was, both culturally and spiritually - and many respects politically as well.

This was common for all Orthodox countries, no one fought here for Constantinople in the past.

[Carpatz]

Romanians always liked Greeks, even when Greeks didn't like us

Half of our ruling class during the middle ages were Greek/Byzantine. The high positions in the Church were filled by Greeks until 19th century.

I think Greeks would see Romania and Romanians in a better light had they visited Romania more often

There was actually a strong aversion to Greeks up to the early modern period because of Phanariot corruption.

[ixulescu]

There was actually a strong aversion to Greeks up to the early modern period because of Phanariot corruption.

Greeks have been in Romania way before the Phanariote rule. Btw, during the Phanariote rule, many of the rulers were Romanian because Ottomans would not trust Greeks anymore.

And while there was widespread corruption, the Phanariote rule did start the process of modernization in the Romanian principalities. Let's not parrot communist propaganda.

[Aspirin]

And while there was widespread corruption, the Phanariote rule did start the process of modernization in the Romanian principalities. Let's not parrot the communist propaganda.

Phanariote rule was the worst period in local history, totally degradation of local customs, norms, culture, ruination of monasteries, a period full of degeneracy, subhumanism, barbarism, coruption, when local society finally started to look like Middle East, than like a part of Europe.

[ixulescu]

Phanariote rule was the worst period in local history, totally degradation of local customs, norms, culture, ruination of monasteries, a period full of degeneracy, subhumanism, barbarism, coruption, when local society finally started to look like Middle East, than like a part of Europe.

ok

http://www.napocanews.ro/2015/05/ref...al-ii-lea.html

[Carpatz]

Greeks have been in Romania way before the Phanariote rule. Btw, during the Phanariote rule, many of the rulers were Romanian because Ottomans would not trust Greeks anymore.

And while there was widespread corruption, the Phanariote rule did start the process of modernization in the Romanian principalities. Let's not parrot communist propaganda.

These fragments are from a 1906 newspaper, decades after Ottoman/Phanariot rule. You can find various writings on the subject from the Romanian intellectual class of that time. Sadly, much of that culture of corruption was inherited, which is holding us back to this day.

[ixulescu]

Romanians have no opinion of Greeks except the ones that worked in the good times when it was profitable to work there.

Historically, Romanians hated Greeks because they were foreigners owning vast stretches of land in our country. Eminescu hated two peoples: the Greeks and the Jews. His sentiment was shared by many that were not of Greek stock.

We should never forget that for more than 200 years, our lands were owned by people that thought of us as barbarians, with few identifying with the land becauss they owned it for quite a while. Not that wes hould hate Greeks now because of that, they're nice people.

communist propaganda much?

You're trying too hard to have an argument here.

Greeks/Byzantines enjoyed massive respect in Romania. In many ways the capital of the Romanian principalities was Constantinople (which was referred to, funnily enough, as the Tsarigrad). The fall of Constantinople was a shock to the society, not only in Wallachia and Moldova, but in Transylvania as well (for instance this was the moment the Orthodox and Catholic communities became effectively split).

Rich people were generally not liked in feudalism, not just those of Greek extraction. By Eminescu's time those rich Greek families considered themselves Romanian and had deeper roots in Romania than most Romanians.

[Carpatz]

communist propaganda much?

You're trying too hard to have an argument here.

Greeks/Byzantines enjoyed massive respect in Romania. In many ways the capital of the Romanian principalities was Constantinople (which was referred to, funnily enough, as the Tsarigrad). The fall of Constantinople was a shock to the society, not only in Wallachia and Moldova, but in Transylvania as well (for instance this was the moment the Orthodox and Catholic communities became effectively split).

Rich people were generally not liked in feudalism, not just those of Greek extraction. By Eminescu's time those rich Greek families considered themselves Romanian and had deeper roots in Romania than most Romanians.

Not sure why you keep bringing communist propaganda when this subject had no relevance by the communist period.

By Eminescu's time those rich Greek families considered themselves Romanian and had deeper roots in Romania than most Romanians.

The hell is that supposed to mean?

[ixulescu]

These fragments are from a 1906 newspaper, decades after Ottoman/Phanariot rule. You can find various writings on the subject from the Romanian intellectual class of that time. Sadly, much of that culture of corruption was inherited, which is holding us back to this day.

Much of that corruption existed before the Phanariotes. The criticism of Phanariotes started with the Romanian revolutionaries that came after the failed revolt of T. Vladimirescu, and it was a way gathering a narrative for the necessity of a national Romanian state.

But it's important to see both sides of Phanariote rule, good and bad, and to understand that most Phanariotes were actually Romanian. Only two Phanariote families were foreign to Romania (Ypsilanties and Mavrocordates). IIRC all other Phanariote families have been in Romania for centuries and even those that had Greek connections considered themselves Romanian. They have been princiary families before and after the Phanariote rule.

[artsi]

„Căutați, fraților iubiți cetitori, de videți ce iaste neomeniia și curviia grecească! Oh! oh! oh! săracă țară a Moldovei, ce nărocire de stăpâni ca aceștiia ai avutu! Ce sorți de viiață ț-au căzut! Cum au mai rămas om trăitoriu în tine, de mare mirare iaste, cu atăte spurcăciuni de obiciaiuri ce să trag până astăzi în tine, Moldovă! Și din vreme în vreme tot s-au mai adaos spurcatele de obiciaiuri, care mai înainte să vor scrie fieștecare la rândul lor […]

Așia socotescu eu cu firea mea această proastă: cându a vrea Dumnezeu să facă să nu fie rugină pe fier, și turci în Țarigrad să nu fie, și lupii să nu mănânce oile în lume, atuncea poate nu vor fi nici greci în Moldova și în Țara Munteniască, nici or fi boiari, nici or putea mânca aceste doao țări, cum le mănâncă. Iar alt leac n-au rămas cu condeiul mieu să mai pomenescu, ca să pot gâci. Focul îl stângi, apa o ezăști și o abați pe altă parte, vântul când bate, te dai în laturi, într-un adăpost și te odihnești, soarele întră în nuor, noaptea cu întunerecul trece și să face iar lumină, iar la grec milă sau omenie, sau dreptate, sau nevicleșug, nici unele de aceste nu sunt, sau frica lui Dumnezeu. Numai cându nu poate să facă rău să arată cu blândețe, iar inima și firea, tot cât aru putea, este să facă răutate. Căutați de cetiți la hronograful grecescu, de vă încredințați și mai bine, pe când au fost grecii puternici și înpărățiia era a lor, ce făcea pre atuncea și ce lucra!”

Ion Neculce