Celts = SW French all but now confirmed(MBA Bavarians)

[Tenma de Pegasus]

^^^
I would wait with such conclusions as even Celtiberians were more northern-shifted than these Lech Valley samples:

Kit number XX4675994 - I3757 Celtiberian
Kit number ED6110729 - I3758 Celtiberian
Kit number RF6275768 - I3759 Celtiberian

Despite the migration to southern latitudes, Celtiberians are more northern shifted than other celtic groups of northern latitudes. Celtiberians are more related to Celtics from British Isles than to austrian celtics. I think the primary ancestry of Iberians is the responsible to make Iberia cluster way northern shifted and incompatible to their latitude. The primary ancestry of Iberia is not from a South European Group, its a NW european cornerstone, but the later migrations of Roman population followed by some germanic and arabic input made them half way between North and South Europe genetically. Similar situation happened with the french.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Non-pay wall link to the paper: https://sci-hub.se/10.1126/science.aax6219

Supp info: https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...Mittnik-SM.pdf
(official pca on page 38 with 6 samples instead of 3, pretty much the same as Davidski's, all the MBA/pink samples around SW French, 2 even more southern shifted around Iberians)

Not a particularly light skinned(full SLC24 but not 45), blue eyed or lactose tolerant population.

If Peterski or someone wants to upload some of the later samples which may be labeled EBA but are still pretty late(post-1800 BC) and have high SNP coverage: AITI_72, AITI_50, AITI_43, AITI_2, AITI_78, AITI_119, AITI_120, would be nice.

[Peterski]

[1] "distance%=2.2688"

         Creoda_scaled

Wales_CA_EBA,50
England_MBA,40
DEU_Lech_MBA,10

[1] "distance%=1.9458"

         Creoda_scaled

Wales_CA_EBA,44
England_EMBA,41.4
DEU_Lech_MBA,12.6
Scotland_MBA,2

[1] "distance%=1.9027"

         Creoda_scaled

Scotland_LBA,67
Wales_CA_EBA,26.8
DEU_Lech_MBA,6.2

Calculator still prefers Poland GAC though.

[1] "distance%=1.7807"

         Creoda_scaled

Wales_CA_EBA,49
England_EMBA,41.8
POL_Globular_Amphora,9.2

Poland GAC as Proto-Celts? No... Try with Poland_Chopice_Wesele_Culture instead.

If Peterski or someone wants to upload some of the later samples which may be labeled EBA but are still pretty late(post-1800 BC) and have high SNP coverage: AITI_72, AITI_50, AITI_43, AITI_2, AITI_78, AITI_119, AITI_120, would be nice.

Okay I will upload them.

[XenophobicPrussian]

But many of modern South Germans are rather shifted in the direction of North Italy and Greece - to the south-east rather than south-west towards SW France and Spain. And I also saw people claiming Celts would be North Italian-like. BA Dalmatians were Bergamo-like too (rather than SW French).

Not really, and Dalmatians/Illyrians have nothing to do with Celts.

S. Germany has an eastern shift because of Slavic admixture, I've tried models for S. Germans and they prefer an Iberian or French source over Italian everytime, although they do get some Italian(and Rhine Germans some of the actual ancient Roman samples) because they do have Roman admixture, it's just not more than 5%, for S. German Celts not to be very southern shifted it would have to mean Roman admixture would have to be somewhere around 25-35%, which is highly unlikely because Romans only went up to the Danube and didn't even hold the territory long.

As for Celtiberian samples being even more northern shifted than these, like the full fledged one British Isles-like sample there, the Celts that moved into Iberia may've been largely from France/La Tene already, not from the Alps area, meaning they could've have a lot of northern Gauls/Bretons/NW French that were closer to full Bell Beakers in their ranks. The Alps, central/south France, S. Germany area is undoubtably home to a native SW French/Iberian-like population, these aren't even the only samples we have, but Swiss Beakers, the one Tumulus culture sample, etc. The area was probably decently populated and Bell Beaker/CW weren't able to just entirely replace the EEF populations there like they did in Britain, the males even put up a pretty good fight because modern South Germany/Austria is a hotspot for G2 in Europe, unlike in Iberia/W. France/Britain where all the male lineages pretty much died out.

[Creoda]

Poland GAC as Proto-Celts? No... Try with Poland_Chopice_Wesele_Culture instead.

Wasn't implying that they were.

[Token]

Poland_Chopice_Wesele_Culture

Is this some kind of chant?

[Peterski]

Okay here are the kit numbers for samples requested by XPrussian:

DG9597754 - AITI_72 - in Eurogenes K15: Spanish_Galicia 7.66
CP1480384 - AITI_50 - in Eurogenes K15: South_Dutch 6.38
KK8011389 - AITI_43 - in Eurogenes K15: French 5.43
PS9648941 - AITI_78 - in Eurogenes K15: French 7.47
CN5088059 - AITI_2 - in Eurogenes K15: South_Dutch 9.76
KJ6170001 - AITI_120 - in Eurogenes K15: French 5.48
NJ6500074 - AITI_119 - in Eurogenes K15: French 8.98

In K15 most score between French and South Dutch, one Spain Galicia.

These have much better coverage than even the best of MBA samples.

Is this some kind of chant?

It sounds funny even for a native Polish-speaker. It is on Global25. I don't know what it is, something from South-West Poland.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Okay here are the kit numbers for samples requested by XPrussian:

DG9597754 - AITI_72 - in K15: 1 Spanish_Galicia 7.66
CP1480384 - AITI_50 - in K15: 1 South_Dutch 6.38
KK8011389 - AITI_43 - in K15: 1 French 5.43
PS9648941 - AITI_78 - in K15: 1 French 7.47
CN5088059 - AITI_2 - in K15: 1 South_Dutch 9.76
KJ6170001 - AITI_120 - in K15: 1 French 5.48
NJ6500074 - AITI_119 - in K15: 1 French 8.98

In K15 most score between French and South Dutch, one Spain Galicia.

These have much better coverage than even the best of MBA samples.



It sounds funny even for a native Polish-speaker. It is on Global25. I don't know what it is, something from South-West Poland.

Thanks. All of them are from 1815-1789 BC(page 65 in supp materials).

I might try to plot the average of all of them and the ones you previously uploaded on the K15 pca tool when I have more time.

[Peterski]

If Celts were actually like these AITI samples, then some (the ones who are more southern-shifted than average) of modern South Germans are still majority Celtic in terms of ancestry.

In Eurogenes K15 top 1st Single Distance, most South Germans score South_Dutch, with some scoring West_German (more northern-shifted) and some French (more southern-shifted).

[Vid Flumina]

Celtiberians had lower steppe than MBA Lech sample but were loaded in WHG (picked up locally as they moved in):

"sample": "Test1:Iberia_North_IA_-_I3758",
"fit": 3.8798,
"Beaker_North": 49.17,
"EEF": 40.83,
"WHG": 10,
"Baltic": 0,
"West_Asian": 0,
"Levant": 0,

"sample": "Test2:Iberia_North_IA_-_I3759",
"fit": 2.4751,
"Beaker_North": 49.17,
"EEF": 41.67,
"WHG": 9.17,
"Baltic": 0,
"West_Asian": 0,
"Levant": 0,

"sample": "Test1EU_Lech_MBA_-_OTTM_151ind2_d",
"fit": 2.84,
"Beaker_North": 50,
"EEF": 44.17,
"Baltic": 4.17,
"WHG": 1.67,
"West_Asian": 0,
"Levant": 0,