Celts = SW French all but now confirmed(MBA Bavarians)

[Vid Flumina]

Some of the guys at Empuries also looked similar, higher steppe then Iberians/Celtiberians and almost no WHG - mind you, anything south of Pyrenees back then had higher WHG than modern Iberians (except Basque of course)

I initially thought about some stranded Ligures but now Celt or Celto-Ligures mix doesn't seem far-fetched..

[Peterski]

OTTM_84 in Eurogenes K13 and K15:

K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 39.96
2 West_Med 21.28
3 West_Asian 11.83
4 Baltic 11.75
5 East_Med 11.04
6 Siberian 3.86
7 East_Asian 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 9.52
2 Spanish_Cataluna 9.84
3 Portuguese 10.84
4 Spanish_Murcia 11.12
5 Spanish_Extremadura 11.22
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 11.27
7 Spanish_Andalucia 11.47
8 Spanish_Galicia 11.48
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 11.62
10 Spanish_Valencia 11.72
11 Spanish_Cantabria 12.34
12 North_Italian 12.68
13 West_German 13.04
14 South_Dutch 13.2
15 Southwest_French 13.25
16 Spanish_Aragon 13.42
17 Tuscan 17.35
18 Southeast_English 17.73
19 Southwest_English 18.09
20 Austrian 18.39

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.4% Spanish_Aragon + 22.6% Tabassaran @ 5.52
2 83.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 16.2% Tabassaran @ 5.6
3 78.1% Spanish_Aragon + 21.9% Lezgin @ 5.81
4 84.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.5% Lezgin @ 5.81
5 85% Spanish_Cataluna + 15% North_Ossetian @ 5.85
6 84.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.8% Chechen @ 5.86
7 84.7% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.3% Ossetian @ 5.87
8 84.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.8% Kabardin @ 5.93
9 82.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 17.5% Nogay @ 5.97
10 84.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.6% Balkar @ 5.98
11 77.9% Spanish_Aragon + 22.1% Chechen @ 6.08
12 79.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 20.4% Tabassaran @ 6.11
13 78.1% Southwest_French + 21.9% Tabassaran @ 6.23
14 85.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.8% Adygei @ 6.23
15 84.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.8% Tadjik @ 6.25
16 80.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 19.8% Lezgin @ 6.27
17 78.7% Southwest_French + 21.3% Lezgin @ 6.33
18 81.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 18.9% Tabassaran @ 6.36
19 84.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.5% Kumyk @ 6.45
20 78.1% Spanish_Aragon + 21.9% Kabardin @ 6.53

K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 27.43
2 North_Sea 24.15
3 West_Med 15.81
4 Baltic 13.06
5 East_Med 12.67
6 West_Asian 3.37
7 Siberian 2.57
8 Eastern_Euro 0.94

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Cataluna 8.99
2 French 9.68
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.73
4 Portuguese 10.45
5 Spanish_Murcia 10.65
6 Spanish_Galicia 10.66
7 Spanish_Extremadura 11.55
8 Spanish_Valencia 11.79
9 North_Italian 11.83
10 South_Dutch 12.22
11 Spanish_Andalucia 13.03
12 Spanish_Cantabria 13.11
13 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.19
14 Southwest_French 13.26
15 Spanish_Aragon 13.84
16 West_German 13.84
17 Austrian 15.08
18 Southwest_English 15.64
19 Serbian 15.65
20 East_German 16.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.4% North_Italian + 36.6% Irish @ 7.07
2 73.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 26.1% Hungarian @ 7.24
3 61.1% North_Italian + 38.9% Southeast_English @ 7.3
4 65% North_Italian + 35% West_Scottish @ 7.3
5 64.7% North_Italian + 35.3% North_Dutch @ 7.31
6 61.8% North_Italian + 38.2% North_German @ 7.39
7 70.4% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 29.6% Hungarian @ 7.42
8 66.4% Spanish_Murcia + 33.6% Hungarian @ 7.47
9 85.3% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.7% Estonian @ 7.5
10 65.2% North_Italian + 34.8% Danish @ 7.51
11 68.6% North_Italian + 31.4% Swedish @ 7.51
12 56.2% Spanish_Valencia + 43.8% West_German @ 7.55
13 83.3% Spanish_Cataluna + 16.7% Finnish @ 7.56
14 60.1% North_Italian + 39.9% Southwest_English @ 7.56
15 82.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 17.2% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 7.58
16 73% Spanish_Cataluna + 27% Austrian @ 7.58
17 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Lithuanian @ 7.58
18 65.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 34.7% Swedish @ 7.61
19 52.2% Spanish_Andalucia + 47.8% West_German @ 7.64
20 67% North_Italian + 33% Orcadian @ 7.64

[Peterski]

This one is of decent quality:

OTTM_156 - kit number QJ6801120 - 22157 SNPs used in K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 35.02
2 West_Med 26.01
3 North_Sea 15.88
4 Baltic 6.54
5 Eastern_Euro 6.14
6 Red_Sea 3.44
7 East_Med 3.43
8 Oceanian 1.46
9 West_Asian 1.07
10 Sub-Saharan 0.54
11 Northeast_African 0.47

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_French 5.06
2 Spanish_Cantabria 6.02
3 Spanish_Aragon 6.64
4 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.53
5 Spanish_Valencia 8.45
6 Spanish_Andalucia 8.84
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 10.03
8 French_Basque 10.06
9 Spanish_Cataluna 10.43
10 Spanish_Extremadura 10.66
11 Spanish_Murcia 10.82
12 Portuguese 11.65
13 Spanish_Galicia 12.73
14 North_Italian 15.99
15 French 16.82
16 South_Dutch 20.05
17 Tuscan 21.91
18 Southwest_English 22.49
19 Austrian 23.22
20 Southeast_English 23.89

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.9% Southwest_French + 20.1% French_Basque @ 4.53
2 70.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 29.4% French_Basque @ 4.76
3 98.8% Southwest_French + 1.2% Papuan @ 4.79
4 94.7% Southwest_French + 5.3% Sardinian @ 4.82
5 98.6% Southwest_French + 1.4% NAN_Melanesian @ 4.85
6 98.4% Southwest_French + 1.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 5.03
7 98.6% Southwest_French + 1.4% Moroccan @ 5.03
8 99.4% Southwest_French + 0.6% Maasai @ 5.04
9 99.6% Southwest_French + 0.4% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 5.04
10 99.6% Southwest_French + 0.4% Luhya @ 5.04
11 99.6% Southwest_French + 0.4% Biaka_Pygmy @ 5.04
12 99.5% Southwest_French + 0.5% San @ 5.04
13 99.6% Southwest_French + 0.4% Bantu_N.E. @ 5.04
14 99.6% Southwest_French + 0.4% Bantu_S.E. @ 5.04
15 99.6% Southwest_French + 0.4% Bantu_S.W. @ 5.04
16 99.6% Southwest_French + 0.4% Mandenka @ 5.04
17 99.7% Southwest_French + 0.3% Yoruban @ 5.04
18 99.6% Southwest_French + 0.4% Sudanese @ 5.04
19 99.6% Southwest_French + 0.4% Ethiopian_Anuak @ 5.04
20 99.5% Southwest_French + 0.5% Sandawe @ 5.05

And K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 35.96
2 West_Med 33.4
3 Baltic 15.53
4 East_Med 8.57
5 Red_Sea 2.62
6 Oceanian 1.94
7 Sub-Saharan 1.51
8 West_Asian 0.3
9 Northeast_African 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_French 7.23
2 Spanish_Cantabria 7.82
3 Spanish_Galicia 8.88
4 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 9.7
5 Spanish_Valencia 9.94
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 10.09
7 Spanish_Extremadura 10.09
8 Portuguese 10.11
9 Spanish_Andalucia 10.2
10 Spanish_Cataluna 10.27
11 Spanish_Aragon 10.76
12 Spanish_Murcia 11.2
13 North_Italian 14.16
14 French 14.86
15 French_Basque 17.82
16 South_Dutch 19.55
17 West_German 20
18 Tuscan 20.18
19 Austrian 22.3
20 Serbian 22.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.5% Sardinian + 47.5% Swedish @ 4.75
2 52.2% Sardinian + 47.8% Norwegian @ 5.04
3 51% Orcadian + 49% Sardinian @ 5.26
4 50.2% Sardinian + 49.8% North_Dutch @ 5.32
5 50.1% Irish + 49.9% Sardinian @ 5.42
6 53.2% Southwest_English + 46.8% Sardinian @ 5.43
7 50% West_Scottish + 50% Sardinian @ 5.58
8 50.6% Sardinian + 49.4% Danish @ 5.67
9 53.2% Southeast_English + 46.8% Sardinian @ 5.78
10 85.8% Southwest_French + 14.2% Sardinian @ 5.83
11 54.8% Sardinian + 45.2% North_Swedish @ 5.95
12 50% Sardinian + 50% North_German @ 6.02
13 90.6% Southwest_French + 9.4% Moroccan @ 6.11
14 90.7% Southwest_French + 9.3% Mozabite_Berber @ 6.15
15 91.3% Southwest_French + 8.7% Tunisian @ 6.24
16 91.2% Southwest_French + 8.8% Algerian @ 6.29
17 58.2% South_Dutch + 41.8% Sardinian @ 6.44
18 96.9% Southwest_French + 3.1% NAN_Melanesian @ 6.48
19 97.6% Southwest_French + 2.4% Papuan @ 6.5
20 89.2% Southwest_French + 10.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 6.57

[XenophobicPrussian]

OTTM_151ind1 - kit number FY3463698 - Eurogenes K15 results:

This one is low coverage - 6925 SNPs used in this evaluation

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 36.41
2 West_Med 16.56
3 Baltic 16.13
4 Eastern_Euro 11.32
5 Atlantic 10.93
6 West_Asian 3.6
7 Amerindian 2.76
8 Red_Sea 2.29
9 Siberian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_German 13.7
2 East_German 14.48
3 Swedish 14.95
4 Norwegian 15.06
5 North_Swedish 15.33
6 Hungarian 15.51
7 West_Norwegian 16.41
8 South_Dutch 17.11
9 North_Dutch 17.23
10 Southwest_English 17.79
11 North_German 17.94
12 French 18.03
13 Danish 18.19
14 Southwest_Finnish 18.24
15 Finnish 18.5
16 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.84
17 Moldavian 18.97
18 Southeast_English 19.09
19 Ukrainian 19.1
20 Orcadian 19.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.3% West_German + 30.7% Ukrainian @ 12.02
2 83.1% Swedish + 16.9% Sardinian @ 12.07
3 69% West_German + 31% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12.07
4 82.2% North_Swedish + 17.8% Sardinian @ 12.11
5 56.9% West_Norwegian + 43.1% Moldavian @ 12.12
6 62.4% Norwegian + 37.6% Moldavian @ 12.28
7 76.8% West_German + 23.2% Estonian @ 12.48
8 81.9% West_German + 18.1% Erzya @ 12.49
9 63.8% Swedish + 36.2% Moldavian @ 12.6
10 84.1% Norwegian + 15.9% Sardinian @ 12.62
11 53.8% Hungarian + 46.2% West_Norwegian @ 12.64
12 82.4% West_German + 17.6% Lithuanian @ 12.64
13 75% West_German + 25% South_Polish @ 12.68
14 52.4% Norwegian + 47.6% Hungarian @ 12.7
15 57.3% West_Norwegian + 42.7% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12.71
16 72.4% West_German + 27.6% Finnish @ 12.71
17 81.7% West_German + 18.3% Kargopol_Russian @ 12.74
18 73.9% West_German + 26.1% Moldavian @ 12.77
19 63.5% Norwegian + 36.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12.79
20 78.6% West_German + 21.4% East_Finnish @ 12.8

You sure that one's MBA though? I don't think so. Either you or Davidski made a mistake, because I only see three MBA legend samples on Davidski's PCA. Either he only uploaded the three or disagreed with the dates on some of them. Try to confirm the age of OTTM ind1 and I'll get back to you.

On how many MBA samples there are, even from the paper, I'm not seeing any MBA ones that are more steppe shifted, only pre-1600 BC and I only see three MBA samples(the pink ones). Edit: Nevermind, see 8 now, but they still aren't as northern shifted as that sample in GEDMatch, only 2 have more steppe than EEF and still only see 3 total MBA samples on Davidski's PCA, he must've only uploaded the highest coverage ones or something. If that one is low coverage I'd take the results with a grain of salt. Either way, the average is still definitely around where I said.

Rather than Basques it seems like, at least the one that made it into G25, was closest to NE Iberians. Basques have excess WHG and somewhat less steppe. Still pretty damn close.
Thinking about it, that "Roman" legionary from Germany, FN_2 from ~300-500AD that appeared to be of SW French origins may have even been one of such locals.

Yeah, when I first saw that Roman legionary, my immediate thought was Bavarian local, although everyone was saying Spanish immigrant. However, he does indeed have an mtDNA that does peak in Iberia and specifically in Basque country, so I didn't really doubt him being Iberian. The mtDNA does exist in modern South Germany so he may indeed have been a local.

[Peterski]

You sure that one's MBA though?

Check Supplementary Table S1, file aax6219_Mittnik_SM_TableS1.xlsx:

https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...ce.aax6219.DC1

In column B (population label) in total 20 samples are listed as Lech_MBA.

Only one sample made it to Global25. And which are the 3 used in PCA?

[Vid Flumina]

Only one sample made it to Global25. And which are the 3 used in PCA?

Lech_MBA:OTTM_87_d
Lech_MBA:OTTM_151ind2_d
Lech_MBA:OTTM_156

[Peterski]

Lech_MBA:OTTM_87_d
Lech_MBA:OTTM_151ind2_d
Lech_MBA:OTTM_156

I posted Eurogenes K15 results for 151ind2 and 156 above. Here is for 87 (eastern-shifted?):

10711 SNPs used in this evaluation

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 38.21
2 West_Med 22.42
3 Baltic 11.71
4 Eastern_Euro 10.16
5 North_Sea 6.79
6 West_Asian 5.68
7 Siberian 3.29
8 Northeast_African 1.73

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_French 13.84
2 French_Basque 15.18
3 Spanish_Aragon 16.09
4 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 16.25
5 Spanish_Andalucia 16.3
6 Spanish_Cantabria 16.32
7 Spanish_Valencia 16.43
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.5
9 Spanish_Cataluna 18.79
10 Spanish_Murcia 19.31
11 Spanish_Extremadura 19.56
12 Portuguese 20.5
13 Spanish_Galicia 21.68
14 North_Italian 21.99
15 Austrian 23.39
16 French 23.57
17 South_Dutch 24.75
18 Serbian 25.75
19 East_German 25.75
20 Croatian 26.28

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.8% French_Basque + 25.2% Tatar @ 10.26
2 76.6% French_Basque + 23.4% Erzya @ 10.38
3 79.6% French_Basque + 20.4% Chuvash @ 10.54
4 81.4% French_Basque + 18.6% Mari @ 10.67
5 75.6% French_Basque + 24.4% Kargopol_Russian @ 10.82
6 75% French_Basque + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 10.83
7 75.3% French_Basque + 24.7% Southwest_Russian @ 10.96
8 73.9% French_Basque + 26.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 10.98
9 75% French_Basque + 25% Estonian_Polish @ 11.06
10 80.2% French_Basque + 19.8% Nogay @ 11.33
11 76% French_Basque + 24% Belorussian @ 11.33
12 70.1% French_Basque + 29.9% Croatian @ 11.34
13 72.3% French_Basque + 27.7% Moldavian @ 11.45
14 78.2% French_Basque + 21.8% Lithuanian @ 11.48
15 82.1% French_Basque + 17.9% Afghan_Turkmen @ 11.59
16 74.5% French_Basque + 25.5% South_Polish @ 11.71
17 75% French_Basque + 25% Polish @ 11.73
18 75.7% French_Basque + 24.3% Ukrainian @ 11.79
19 82.9% French_Basque + 17.1% Uzbeki @ 11.82
20 71.4% French_Basque + 28.6% Bulgarian @ 11.83

[Peterski]

Something had to explain the southernly shift of S. Germans if the historic Germanic migration period actually happened and it was either going to be southern shifted(aka non-British Isles like) native Celts or massive Roman admixture, the former seemed much more likely

But many of modern South Germans are rather shifted in the direction of North Italy and Greece - to the south-east rather than south-west towards SW France and Spain. And I also saw people claiming Celts would be North Italian-like. BA Dalmatians were Bergamo-like too (rather than SW French).

[Token]

Check Supplementary Table S1, file aax6219_Mittnik_SM_TableS1.xlsx:

https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...ce.aax6219.DC1

In column B (population label) in total 20 samples are listed as Lech_MBA.

Only one sample made it to Global25. And which are the 3 used in PCA?

The quality of this sample is very bad, that's why it didn't made it to G25.

[Creoda]

[1] "distance%=2.2688"

         Creoda_scaled

Wales_CA_EBA,50
England_MBA,40
DEU_Lech_MBA,10

[1] "distance%=1.9458"

         Creoda_scaled

Wales_CA_EBA,44
England_EMBA,41.4
DEU_Lech_MBA,12.6
Scotland_MBA,2

[1] "distance%=1.9027"

         Creoda_scaled

Scotland_LBA,67
Wales_CA_EBA,26.8
DEU_Lech_MBA,6.2

Calculator still prefers Poland GAC though.

[1] "distance%=1.7807"

         Creoda_scaled

Wales_CA_EBA,49
England_EMBA,41.8
POL_Globular_Amphora,9.2